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HELP.... Legal issues about caparks

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by VTRstunter, Mar 30, 2005.

  1. For you people that don't know me.... 99% of my riding is stunting.. I am a member (founder) of 'Out on Probation stunters' and 99% of that stunting is done off the roads. I have a question about the legal issues of practiceing in Carparks. We put on shows and hense i need to practice alot, we have been useing the local dragstrip but we can't access it enough and have no access when dark cause the light cost too much to run.

    Was wanting the know the more legal side of things when it comes to policeman, and what fines or orders they could give you.

    i stunted in a carpark last night and it was great... but i have two huge carparks that are great stunt spots... i won't stunt there unlesS there are no cars and no people around.

    What exactly can police do to me if i get caught or someone phones them... while practiceing in a carpark

    I want to stunt to my hearts content the safest way, as in, makeing sure no other person out there gets hurt by what i do, so thats why i have choosen un-used carparks... I'm not trying to be a hoon and rev the shitter out my bike and doing massive burnouts everywhere there, i'm, just trying to get my slow wheelie stuff right... and stoppies..

    So if there are legal type people out there, your opinon/facts/help is much appreciated and i'm sure others would be wanting to know what the legal ramifications are..??

    I'm talking about useing these carparks after busniess hours and in non residential areas...

    Thanks, any info is much appricated.
    VTR stunter

    (pm me if you would prefer to talk than write a 1000 word reply and we'll have a chat on the phone )
  2. Try to find out who the building manager is, some are user friendly and don't mind what goes on as long as there are no messes to clean up and no explaining to do to the owners.
    There is also the insurance issue, most property managers wont go for it. If you fcuk up they could be made liable.

    Good luck.
  3. will have our MA license/insurance in mid April, so hopefully this will sort that problem out about liability.. :?
  4. although you have your own insurance they may get done under occupiers liability.

    same case if someone trespasses (on their land without permission), the owner of the land may be held liable for any incidents that occur therefore they may not be all that friendly to the idea...

    im pretty sure this is a general principle with many exceptions and qualificatoins attached but from my studies...(a few years ago now with my memory lacking somewhat), the company may be held liable. (feel free to correct me anyone)

    also, with the cops... if they are real pricks they may get you for trespassing, and may further strenghten their position by the fact that your not using it for its purpose breaching your right of entry if its an open car park.

    sorry cant clarify much.

    hope it never gets to the point you need legal advice or medical treatment :D
  5. I doubt it. The Hang Gliding Federation has been wrestling with this one for years because most of our launches are on private property. Getting permission to operate from these sites is becoming increasingly difficult.

    If the landowner grants you permission to use the premises, there is an implied commitment to make the premises safe for you to do so. Although we have insurance and waivers that protect landowners, it isn't just the liability for an accident they are trying to avoid. They also don't want the grief associated with having to defend a claim or meet the associated legal costs. Remember that, if your insurer thinks that there is a chance of avoiding a payout by claiming negligence on the part of the property owner, they may choose to sue the landowner for injury or loss that you suffer.

    The legal costs associated with the defending the claim will be horrendous even if the court decides that there was no negligence. Sure, costs might be awarded against your insurer, but this is still a risk the landowner is unlikely to want to take on.

    In Victoria we have both civil and criminal trespass - my understanding is that once you've been asked to leave the premises, you're at risk of a charge of tresspass if you do not leave or if you return. A court can issue an order instructing you not to return, a breach of which may constitute contempt of court.

    I have real doubts as to whether you'll get a car park property manager to agree to allow stunting practice on his or her premises. The Hang Gliding Federation's solution has been to take out very high levels of insurance and purchase their own land where necessary.
  6. umm yeh ...

    as above

  7. yeah, thanks for that info.. very true too.

    Wheni got to the drag strip to practice most weekends, i sign a disclaimer form and then i go off and practice...
    wonder if i can use that disclaimer form and give it to the manager and he can let me sign that???
  8. Unlikely. The drag strip will have an endorsement on its insurance for high-risk activities and pay the high premiums associated with this. Unless you can get the car park manager to get a similar endorsement (and I think parking in a public car park counts as high risk, given the quality of driving on display) then I still think you're looking for a miracle.

    The waiver is of limited value. Changes to the Victorian, New South Wales and Queensland legislation, and Section 68B of the Trade Practices Act give weight to the waivers in high-risk recreational activities. The effect of these changes is to give greater protection to operators that supply high-risk recreational activities - clearly the drag strip does this and the waiver may therefor protect the operator, but the car park owner does not and I doubt that the waiver would provide protection.

    Note also that the legislation relates to recreational activities: -

    A sporting activity or a similar leisure time pursuit or any other activity that involves:
    • significant degree of physical exertion or risk;
      and is undertaken for the purposes of recreation, enjoyment or leisure.
    If you are practising for shows for which you charge a fee, I would suggest that you are no longer undertaking a recreational activity.
  9. In a carpark, such as Safeway, Coles or a shopping centre, you're still subject to the road rules. I would imagine that if a copper saw you practising, he'd do you for dangerous riding, etc.. It would be interesting, though, to see how it'd pan out if you defended it in court.

    Not sure what the go is, regarding private, pay-to-enter car parks. However, I doubt that you'd get the owner's permission, anyway, as others have pointed out, due to insurance issues.

    Your other option would be to find a secluded back road and practice there.
  10. ok... this is way above my head... hhmm .. it seems it's alot more to it than just asking, Thanks very much chairman...
  11. i'm not after carparks like coles, woolies etc.. ones like sports venues, large industrial carparks and etc.. places not near residential areas...

    I just wanna do my stunt practice in a safe and controlled environment, and it feels like the law is trying to keep me practiceing on quite public roads.....

    i wonder if this arguement would hold up in court??
  12. Mmm...stunts (law people read: reckless behaviour) together with laws/police/courts probably don't see eye to eye.

    To be aware, some car parks you may be thinking of using may be owned by the council (even those that seem part of supermarkets or private sporting complexes). Not sure if that changes anything in terms of the law though - not sure.

    With any luck if the police catch you doing silly things (in their minds) in a large car park, they'll just tell you to scram and head on home. If you refuse they'll do you in for trespassing. I'm sure they'd probably ask for your licence and rego - I'm not sure what you have and I'm not sure how that works on car parks and places either.

    Good luck!