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Heated gear connection

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by Pompy, May 4, 2016.

  1. Just after a little advise/re assurance, I am thinking about getting some 12v heated gear, pant and jacket liners. Just not sure about power draw, I don't want to overwork the charging system.

    The liners would draw about 12 amps on high, I also have OEM heated grips, don't know what they draw.

    I have a 2015 Crossrunner, just wondering if the amps seem high? I have no idea about how much the charging system can handle.....

  2. 12 amps is about 150-160 watts. Google "your bike model stator output". If it's fuel injected, it'll probably need at least 200 watts for it's own internal use, the remainder is for charging the battery and running lights etc. Headlight globe is about 55 watts.

    Your liners won't actually draw 12 amps. The reason is that the cable supplied with them will be made out of Chinesium* and be much too thin to carry the rated current, so it'll have a significant voltage drop; losses of 10-15%.

    Plus, 150 watts of heat in a jacket is heaps. An electric blanket on high is only about 60 watts and that's spread across a whole bed. If it actually outputs 150 watts I doubt you'll leave it on high that much.

    * In the realm of wiring, Chinesium refers to copper**-ish coated aluminium/rice flour alloy that melts with a naked flame.
    ** It's reddish, it might be copper, might be iron oxide/rice flour alloy.
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  3. Googling shows that 2015 VFR800Fi has a 497 watt stator. Probably the xrunner has the same one. I expect the output to be half that at idle.

    To answer the other question, heated grips are about 30 watts on high but that is hand melting temperature so think more like 15 watts (per grip).

    at say 5000RPM
    500 watts available
    200-250 for engine
    55 for headlight (assuming one globe)
    tail lamps are tiny, 5 watts for incandescent, less for LEDs

    200 watts available for charging and other stuff.

    Even with your grips and vest on high, you're still not using all the available power but you're getting close and at idle you'll be draining your battery. As long as you don't idle for too long, don't really see a problem.
  4. wokwonwokwon thanks for that, I'll google the stator output, FYI the jacket is 7 amps and pants 3.5, and yep agree high would only on at the start.
  5. So looking at those figures wokwonwokwon, I should not have any problems if I do go the wired heating route?
  6. Nah, but remember all my figures are just estimates. It wouldn't hurt to say, chuck a voltmeter on the battery, see what it floats at say 5000RPM (expect between say 14 and 14.6 volts) and then turn everything on and see if it dips much. If it dips below 12.8ish then you're not charging it anymore and need to back off the consumers.

    It could be the VFR has a proper charger (called a smart charger) where it manages the field current to control the output. Not sure there. I'm not a bike/auto electrician. One of them will probably chime in soon.

    Old cars had a 'charge' light and that's exactly what it showed. If current was flowing out of the battery instead of in, the light lit up. These days we have something called 'emissions control' that needs to manage charging (therefore engine load) to save 1 microgram of CO2 per mm travelled, coz of the dolphins or something.
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  7. What gear have you been considering PompyPompy ? I've started researching for a vest, but there is almost too much information out there in favour of one or the other..
  8. wokwonwokwon thanks for the info, I will get the multi meter out (y)
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  10. So how many minutes will the VFR do 500w for before the stator burns out? :p
    Most VFR's I've seen that are kitted for touring have a voltmeter permanently wired up to catch a failed charging system before it leaves them stranded.

    On my zzr250 I had issues with the charging system keeping up when I ran the heated bars on and had to install a LED headlight and replace the various dash bulbs with LED's to scavenge some more watts.
    You should be fine with heated bars and a jacket, it only becomes a problem when you install the heated seat pads and your pillion catch's you have heated gear...I learnt the hard way
  11. PompyPompy

    Have you got heated grips?

    If so, have you thought about getting some merino wool inner thermals? I've icebreaker top and bottoms and trust me, they're good enough for winter riding..

    Here's a link..

    Men's Base Layers - Merino Wool Thermals | Icebreaker

    They have a factory outlet in Smith Street and you get some stuff pretty much half the price.

    And while you're there, check out their neck warmers and inner gloves as well...

    All good stuff...
  12. Lazy LibranLazy Libran Yeah have heated grips, and the battery vest works good, was thinking more about getting the 12v stuff to forget about layers and batteries.

    Last winter it was common for me to wear 2 layers of thermals on both top and bottom, will have a look at the Merino stuff, but I do really feel the cold, think my retirement will north of the tropic of capricorn!!!
  13. Nah they have cockroaches the size of cats there.
  14. Get the high numbered one i.e. 240 or something... Just remember, higher the number, the warmer it is.

    I then put on a micro fleece top on top and my jacket with the in built thermal liner. This is more than enough for me..

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  15. Pretty much all bikes now days have a permanent magnet rotor and a shunt regulator unlike the variable rotor/field circuit system used in cars. So when you are not drawing much current the regulator is working its hardest shunting the current generated. The more current you draw the less the regulator has to do, up to the point where the stator melts. ;)

    Just remember in your calculations above you have the charge current for the battery as well. After a cold start it takes a while for the charge circuit to recover the battery charge. Wokwon is right, monitor the battery voltage to work out if your charge circuit is healthy. I recommend the Sparkbright Eclipse, simple to fit and the colour and flash rate gives you a lot of info on your charge system.

    Eclipse Battery Voltage Monitor | SparkBright
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  16. Just remember the new VRF800 variants run LED headlights, not halogen. Not sure what their power consumption is but that will probably give a little more leeway on the available power. It's probably worth mentioning that VFRs have historically had comparatively little available alternator output and significant issues with the wiring harness and reg/recs. Many owners have done mods to work around this. If the current stator output is 497 W then they have increased it dramatically over the previous model. There are a couple of dedicated VFR forums where there is a wealth of very specific VFR experience with heated gear and wiring. Just google VFR World or VFR Discussion. There are a lot of users there from the US, Canada and Europe where the need for the heated gear is very significant so they tend to have a lot of relevant experience and can probably highlight any traps for new players.
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  17. Hi PompyPompy,
    It will be a close thing if you have everything switched on full.

    Stator output ~ 497W
    Bike consumption ~ 250W Check the forums

    Diff = ~ 240W
    Heated grips 30W (on high setting)
    Heated layers 130W (on high)

    Not a lot left to charge the battery if you start running any other navigation or phone charging etc.
    If you can avoid having everything on the highest heat settings then you should be fine.
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  18. Thanks for the info, I would doubt that everything would be on high at the same time time, most likely low or medium