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Head of Tasmanian Motorcycle Council sets back Motorcycle sa

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by helina handbasket, Sep 8, 2006.

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  1. September 06, 2006 12:00am
    Article from: Mercury

    TASMANIA'S peak motorcycle body wants wire rope safety barriers accepted.
    "We realise it is important to try to reduce the run-off-road car crashes," said Tasmanian Motorcycle Council president Shaun Lennard.
    "Although we're not particularly excited about a proliferation of wire ropes, we understand and accept that in many situations it is the best application," Mr Lennard said.

    "It depends where they are. In Sweden they put them in a two-lane road and there's nowhere to go, but here they always widen the road. France has a rubber barrier (Moto.Tub) on the wire that helps reduce the risk to bikers.
    "In some cases, they can protect motorcyclists because it stops an out-of-control car crossing over and hitting them."
    He said there were differing opinions among Tasmanian bikers but the issue had been discussed at length.
    "In some places we don't want them and in some places we'd prefer concrete barriers."
    And the label "cheesecutters" was a misnomer because it was the upright posts, not the wire, that caused the serious damage, said Mr Lennard.
    His comments follow concerns by a motorcyclist who said they were seen as a particular hazard to bikers.
    Accident researchers in Victoria have urged some modifications and a review by barrier manufacturers to reduce the risk to bikers so the wire ropes could be rolled out extensively to benefit all road users.
    A recent report on motorcyclist injury risk by the Monash University Accident Research Centre reviewed worldwide use and Victorian accidents and said wire rope barriers were likely to be safer than more rigid barriers.
    It outlined "motorcyclist-friendly devices": barrier-post cross-sections, shrubs and the Moto.Tub -- now compulsory in French roadworks.
    Infrastructure and Road Safety Minister Jim Cox is visiting Sweden which has drastically reduced fatal and serious-injury crashes with very high seatbelt use and wire-rope barriers across the country. The wire ropes have cut 90 per cent of run-off-road and head-on serious injury and fatal crashes.
    Run-off-road crashes are responsible for up to 40 per cent of death and high-severity-injury crashes, more in rural areas.
    Wire ropes are used on the border of roads to prevent run-off-roads and also in the centre to stop head-ons.
    Australian Transport Safety Bureau research reports that motorcyclists are 29 times more likely to die on the road than other road users.

    You can regsiter your thoughts to Mr Lennard here. email@tasmanianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au
    or too the AMC (Mr Lenders is the chair)
  2. Hi helina handbasket,
    RE: Australian Transport Safety Bureau research reports that motorcyclists are 29 times more likely to die on the road than other road users.
    Therefore Road Safety planning should be 29 times more obliged to protect motorcyclists.
    I would also like to know how a location is identified to be a high risk for head on collisions and what the main cause of it was.
    I would be inclined to say that most head on happen on 2 lane roads and not on HWY's or FWY's.
    Most rural areas are 2 lanes and it would be only a benifit to a car running off and hitting other stationary objects not head on's.

  3. There are idiots born everyday and for the head of a motorcycling council to say yes to wire rope barriers is the ultimate of idiocy.
  4. With apologies to our southern cousins...

  5. Well, yes. I guess that's fair enough.

    Why does he understand and accept this, I wonder? In what situations is a WRB demonstrably safer than alternative technologies?

    Most of this sounds quite reasonable. Widen the road and put a rubber covering on a WRB and it's probably less dangerous to riders than a length of armco.

    I wonder if the views he's expressing are representative of Tasmanian riders as a whole, and accurately reflect the lengthy discussions?

    What a friggin' silly thing to say!
  6. No actually that's correct, it's the upright posts and their close proximity to each other that does the most damage to a motorcyclist. and car.
  7. I can reassure you that Shaun is (in this case) speaking only on behalf of theTas Motorcycle Council and not on behalf of the AMC.

    (AMC Executive Member)
  8. The man's a perfect example of why brothers and sisters should not breed children.
  9. I have writen to Shaun about this (I know him from my time in tas) expressing my disappointment at the stance taken when they finally had media attention. I am still waiting on his reply
  10. read with sarcasm;

    oh oh, but thats ok because they have 15% superanuation now and thats gunna attract better people. not the kind who are selfish and take bribes, oh no, the good people.
  11. Whilst I do _not_ support wire rope barriers your statement isn't logical.

    The ATSB figures are in line with what has been quoted elsewhere (other places have said between 25 and 35 times), but assuming that implies an obligation to protect 29 times is not using the figures (which are incomplete) properly.

    Where (and when) money is spent is more complicated than that.

    But (like medicine) the first rule should be (to paraphrase) "DO NO HARM" and wire rope barriers cause increased harm to a segment of the road user population (US!).

  12. It's friggin' silly to be taking issue with riders' nickname for WRBs, on the basis that one part of their construction does the damage but another doesn't. It's a spectacular example of missing the point.

    If he were saying "you shouldn't call them cheesecutters because they're actually quite safe", that'd be one thing. But "you shouldn't call them cheesecutters because you get dismembered by the posts, not the wire" verges on the moronic (whether or not it's factually correct).
  13. i just breezed over it and have a suggestion for anyone planning to write to those responsible for the cheeze cutting bum jacking pole/wire;

    when u accuse them of ignoring the needs of motorcycles, instead of saying

    'you dont care about motorcycle safety'

    say 'you dont care about road safety'

    bring on the pressure
  14. When a friend of mine said that this guy was a flog, I didn't believe her, thought it might have been sour grapes that she lost her job as a riding instructor when he was on the board that replaced the company she worked for.

    seems I owe her an apology.

    He goes to Joes sometimes......
    Unless he can justify his statement, or prove he was taken out of context, he's gunna cop a gob full, and not just from me.

    Wonder how much the gum'nt is paying him?

    Wonder if he can live with the guilt next time a rider dies due to hitting a WRB?
  15. Can't agree with that - by calling them cheesecutters it distracts from the real dangers involved. By focusing on what really causes the injuries (the posts) you're able to make a better case for doing something.

    The computer simulations I've seen from Europe all say the same thing - the wires just guide you nicely into the posts where the really serious injuries occur.

  16. Hi ZRX1200R,
    I'm just making an example of how stats are manipulated to achieve a specific target.
    When talking about logic and 29 percent more likely to die on the roads than other road users portrays motorbike riders as dangerous.
    Dangerous I am not its those cages that put you into compromising situations!

    When speaking of road funding Good old Jeff put in place a 7 cent/L fuel levy to cover road associated maintenance. It never came off! Along with all the other tax's that are being collected.

    When the average Tax payer pays approx 50% tax in a consolidated spending environment then I disagree with you!
    The ammount of hidden tax's that are out there are all paid by the comsumer.

    The only complicated situation is a politicians salary package!

  17. Sorry Gromit, I have to disagree with you. Lack of concentration and lack of skill cause road-run-off crashes. On perfectly straight sections of many highways, I have seen many instances of wheel marks in the left side gravel then followed by black tyre marks going diagonally across the road, followed by sometimes a rollover, sometimes not. They are just lucky that noone was coming towards them.

    The lack of concentration has caused the vehicle to run onto the gravel on the LHS, Startled, the driver overreacts, yanks the wheel to the right causing the vehicle to slide in the gravel, then veer out of control across the highway, across the other lane. The lack of skill, is where the driver overreacts to hitting the gravel.

    Driver training could overcome both.

    Oh the lack of concentration also is reflected by the number of rear end collisions that happen in the cities at lights.
    It's not WRBs we need, it's education and training.
    Hardly fair enough.
  18. I didn't say it was fair enough to install WRBs to reduce crashes involving cars running off the road. I merely said that Mr Lennard's comment (that it's important to reduce the number of these crashes - which it is) was fair enough.

    In other words, I was agreeing with his opening "motherhood" statement, not with the installation of WRBs as a remedy. Which the rest of my post made quite clear, I think.

    As for whether one should or shouldn't call WRBs "cheesegraters", it just depends on how pedantic one wants to be. Mr Lennard obviously thinks it's vital to craft one's metaphors with surgical precision. A few Netriders seem to share his concern.

    Good grief! The only real issue is that these things are not safe for riders. They may in fact guide you carefully onto the posts rather than slicing you like a block of Edam, but that doesn't bloody matter! It's nothing more than a nickname, and prissily pointing out that it's not actually a scientifically accurate nickname is a textbook case of not seeing the wood for the trees.

    The most important thing is to ensure WRBs don't get installed in their current unpadded form, and that existing WRBs are either removed or modified to improve their safety.

    You can call them Rumpelstiltskins for all I care, just don't waste time pissing around with minor details. Not if you're the President of the Tasmanian Motorcycling Council, anyway.


    Wot he said, so eloquently :cool:
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