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Haggling with dealers

Discussion in 'Businesses and Service Providers' started by jitboy, Aug 18, 2006.

  1. Hi all,

    Just wanted to know if there were any tips for bringing down the price of buying a new bike. I'm looking at getting a Daytona 675 and it's still retailing at RRP 14,890 + orc. ($16,060)

    How much less can I expect to get it for if that's even possible?
    Is it better if I try to get them to chuck in gear as well?

    haha and is this "dealer delivery" charge just a rort?
  2. Haggling for a Daytona 675 at the moment is pointless. The waiting list is longer than... well yeah.
    If you need gear then i'm sure the dealer will give you a decent deal, but if it's a haggle over the actual sale price of the bike, give up now.
  3. Hey jitboy, its always exciting picking up a new ride but if you want here are a couple of tip that I subscribe to, no matter what the perchase.

    Say your aiming for a price of about 14,500 including orc
    1) When your in there don't sound to excited, don't be afraid to loss the deal, cos you can always go somewhere else.
    2) In fact act as if you are doing them a favour by taking it off their hands, because that is exactly what you are doing.
    3) Go in with a ridiculously low price, saying that this is your budget (say around 12k flat)
    4) Negotiate in a couple of intervals between you until you come up to about 14k and just tell him that is your absolute limit. Tell them you would love to do business with them it is just that the budget can't allow it.
    5) If they can't come that low (which they prob won't) leave them a business card or just your phone number and tell them that if they can work out anything closer to your price range to give you a call.
    6) Then a week or two down the track visit the dealership again and tell them that you are ready to sign today and that you have whatever deposit ready if they can do it for the $14500.

    Oh yeah and negotiate the price of the bike first, then negotiate again when you put the gear on top, as it is a total different deal then.

    I hope this helps, I mean I managed to get $15k off my car that way. Still if these 675's are moving quite fast and they are having no trouble selling them then you are not going to get very far with negotiating. Still have a go, there is no harm in trying.

    Oh yeah and go towards the end of the month when they are trying to reach sales targets.

  4. Good advice LPCIII for anyone out there shopping for a new bike, EXCEPT for one that's in hot demand. By all means, try and haggle yourself a good deal but when your chasing a Daytona 675 your options are rather limited.

    1. Triumph's are only distributed in Victoria by Peter Stevens and a few others (Bendigo, Shepparton & Horsham have independents).

    2. The waiting list for the Triumph 675 last i heard was around 4-6 months depending on who you talk to, who you know, and how much you cough up.

    3. I couldn't stop at two, i mean c'mon... anyway i'm still waiting to see the Daytona 1050. That's going to be one helluva rocket. :grin:
  5. About 15 years ago, a fellow named Doug Anderson published a book through Australian Consumers Association, titled "Buying and Selling Cars in Australia". Anderson was a former Holden dealer and used car dealer. He went into all the tricks of the trade, showed you what to look for, what they do to you to get you to sign away more money than you can afford, or how they make worthless "accessories" sound like you're getting a good deal.

    While the book was written by a car dealer, the principles for selling cars or bikes are the same. Or anything else, for that matter. Just that trading vehicles is a more complex area.

    One rule though, when haggling, there may be a bit of fat built into the sale price, and this depends on how popular the vehicle is. But there is a bottom point at which the salesman will kill the sale if you won't come up to it.

    If you hear people skite about how they screwed the salesman, then they're just spouting crap. particularly when they say, "the salesman did us a favor. He took a slight loss on this vehicle, but said that he'd easily make it back on the next few sales."

    Don't kid yourself. Each sale is worth $$ to the salesman. It's how he earns his income. He likes money just like the rest of us do. And he won't be doing strangers any favors by taking an effective pay cut. He'll be doing what he can to maximise it.

    Just remember too, when buying a vehicle. Its resale value isn't changed one bit if you "option it up". Sure, having Akrapovics or a Ventura system on the bike may be selling points. But they don't increase its market value. That's determined, firstly, by what make and model it is to begin with and its popularity, then by the build date on the vehicle, the mileage (and even then that's taken with a grain of salt) and its overall condition.

    If you buy a "2006" Fireblade, but it's got 12/05 on it, then as far as resale goes, it's a 2005 Honda.

    Remember too, anything sold with the bike, such as insurance, extended warranties and so on, are icing on the cake for the salesman. With cars, it's worthless rubbish like paint "protection", rust proofing, floor mats and other accessories that are not a part of the standard equipment list. You spend an extra $2,000 on mag wheels, for example. It won't increase the vehicle's value one cent.

    The same goes for after market stuff. Ducati and Harley Davidson have a huge market in after sales stuff for their bikes, as any buyer of these marques will agree. They are introduced to someone who specialises in this stuff. For example, HD has about 10 pages of different handgrips in its catalogs. A mate who bought a Ducati 749R was given a catalog of after market accessories. He could have easily "optioned" it up to a point where the bike would have cost him over a hundred grand. But in the end, it still would have been worth under $30k if it was valued for a trade-in.

    So, best thing is to shop around. Do your research - see what the bike that you're interested in is selling at other dealers. You can try and trade one against the other. But they'll probably cotton onto that. If you're honest and say that Peter Stevens will sell you a Honda Fireblade for $16k and the salesman at New World Honda says that he can match it but can't go lower than it, then you're probably hitting their bottom prices.

    This isn't the case when you're dealing with a country dealer, who doesn't have the same amount of sales. The local dealers here are frustrated about this, particularly the local Honda dealer as a lot of guys from here have bought bikes at New World Honda in Berwick. As a result not many of them flog road bikes. Their sales are mainly in off-road stuff, particularly products that cater for the farming sector.
  6. I thought some of the new car manufactures had a built in sales allocation figure on the number of sales.

    So if for example if they reach a certain level there allocated budget from the dealer went up. If this is the case (and I thnk it is, but maybe to not all manufactures on sellers) then the dealer may take a hit at the end of the month. He may loose 3 grand lets say to gain 20 in advertising.

    Cheers :cool:
  7. seeing as the dealership for that bike..will be the dreaded enemy, P. Stevens....good luck!
  8. If you are lucky you might haggle a free keyring, but really what do you expect, are you seriously thinking that a dealer is going to discount the hottest item on the market at present??????

    The only haggle item that you have is your trade-in.
  9. It will be harder to get a 675 cheap because it is popular, but you are always in a better position to bargain then you think.

    Remember the salesman needs the sale, because he works on commission and the dealership needs the sale, because you can buy Triumphs at a lot of different dealerships.

    When you can't get anymore on price, go for accessories and gear. The dealerships make a bucket load on these and as such don't loose much by "giving" them away.
  10. There's no reason the sales guy wouldn't secure a sale with a cheaper price, but expect that you will be at the bottom of the delivery list until supply outnumbers sales. You pay full price and get loads of accessories and you will go straight to the top of the list.
    They're not gonna let you walk away to get something else, not if they're smart.
  11. MJT57 - Does this information apply in the Used market as well ?

    I'm going in to look at a 2002 Sprint RS in the next few days, and he's got the sticker price about the same as everyone else in the second-hand magazines. Basically I'd like to move his price down - probably by about $1k (from $9k) Does this sound feasible if i use the "Best offer" approach outlined above ?

    Love to hear responses to THIS one :)

  12. Just give them your best price that you are prepared to pay, then give them your number and say if you don't here from them in the next week you are buying a firestorm or something. Most retailers hate seeing a customer walking out with an alternative of another product.
  13. kazjim, you walk in and wave $8k under his nose and if he says no walk away (still waving money) and he will call you back.
  14. Is this private or dealer?

    Chances are private you won't, but dealer you should. Depends on the dealer. I suspect one dealer in Sydney puts about $3k haggle in their second hand bikes, just based on the rediculas price they are listed at.
  15. Dealer ...

    Triway, I was going to walk in with $8 cash and see if he can help me :)

    The bike is on the central coast, so not quite as much competition between dealers .....

    Thanks guys
  16. gee thanks to everyone for all the feedback this is a great forum.

    I guess I'll have to go in there without hoping to walk away with a bike. I was going to either put my name down for a 675 or a GSXR750 which has just had a price drop. The guys at PS mentioned they had a few 675s in stock when I was there last week... but for all I know that most likely was a load of BS.

    Any reason everyone hates Peter Stevens? haha I can imagine why but haven't heard anyone's stories.
  17. another thing dealers will do is in the price tag they will put $20,000 then cross it out and put $19,00 then cross that out and put $18,000. Then people think they are getting it for $18 when its really worth $20.

    To put yourself in the best position, walk in with the cash and say thats that, cant do anymore al att, full stop. Then you have to be prepared to walk away and let them chase after you. Always leave your number and always say your on your way to look at something else.
  18. Do a search on Peter Stevens and see what you get. There are a fair few horror stories out there...
  19. I like to research, test ride bikes elsewhere.
    Then walk into the place your aiming to buy your bike from.

    Take cash, put $1000 under your final price in an envelope tuck it into your pants, put top over it to cover it.

    Give the other $1000 to your mate/girl

    Then tell them how much, they will go narh man,
    Pull out your cash and say this is all i have.
    They will know your serious.
    Then haggle your little heart out.
    Worse case you get the $1000 off your mate (he was pretening to buy gear with it, if they get suss)

    When buying a new bike, you have more choices as a few other dealers will stock it.
    Will PS just go to another store.

    Works everytime with me.

    Oh and there less likely to do deals, if you have to get finance. Why you ask they take hours to set th edeal up for you and your finance falsl through. Happens all the time to them, so they tend to avoid it.

    GOOD LUCK!! :grin:
  20. Regardless of how hard or what method you use to negotiate, no dealer will sell you anything unless there is a "profit" in it for them.

    How they define profit can be interesting though. Sales managers are notorious for dodgy internal book entries and creative accounting. As an example say they have 10 new bikes in stock and someone accidently overtraded a dog by $1000 they often write off 10 x $100 on the sales stock, thereby increasing what they need to sell the rest of them for.

    People often complain of the price they are offered as a trade in but when any bike comes into stock there is a bunch of numbers to crunch. What the dealers do is work out it's future sales value, then deduct expected profit, reconditioning, possible warranty claims and the "lot fee". This fee is supposed to offset the admin costs and fixed costs of running a dealership. It can be $1000's per bike. Then they work out your pride and joys real value to the dealership, which can be really really low. Sometimes they inflate this value to you on paper by offseting it against profit on the bike they are selling but ultimately the "change over" is the same $$ regardless of how they present the numbers.

    Certain manufactures do provide incentives to dealers to offload slow moving stock or when certain sales numbers are reached so the end off month can be a good time to buy. Unless of course the dealer has had a shocker of a month and they are holding out for big profit on the next sale as the incentives won't be coming in that month. Also dealers do get commission for introducing finance to lenders and insurance to underwriters so there can be benefits in using theres if all things are equal.

    Dealers have a PMA (Predetermined Marketing Area) whereby the manufacturer records actual sales in and around the dealers physical location. So if you live in Melbourne and buy in Traralgon the Melbourne dealer will find out about that, and they really hate the flack they get for it from head office. So if you are giving your dealer a b/s price from another dealer make sure its miles away.