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Had my first lock up tonight

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by HeavyNinja, May 31, 2016.

  1. so my mrs nana had hit her emergency button and my mrs rang me to go meet her at her nanna's. So you can imagine I didn't ride slow, I locked the rear pulling up to her driveway. I controlled it, even with it sliding. Made me realize how fine a line there is. I use both my front and rear together all the time, but was just a bit quick tonight and I checked the road after and it was a little greasy.

  2. you lucky boy! would not have been any help to poor nana if you broke your neck on the way there. glad you made it ok - more importantly hope nana is ok!
  3. Yeah was pretty lucky, was greasy road as there was no sound, but I knew straight away the rear was locked. Nana is ok, I used to be on the ambulance so after checking her over convinced her she needed to go to hospital. No one else could (other people arrived whilst I was getting there) so my future parents have taken her to the hospital as she hit her head.
  4. hope she will be ok mate, that's pretty scary
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  5. I think a locked rear is no big deal. Others think a locked rear is going to cause a crash, and claim everyime they get an ABS light, it saved their life. It's a comfort level thing, if you where a kid who they grew up doing big tail slides down the street you will have different comfort levels to someone who didn't.

    But yes, you learn't that it doesn't take much to lock a rear brake when stopping quickly, hence why so many advocate not even using the rear brake in an emergency stop.
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  6. in a non-emergency situation rear wheel lockups can be a bit of fun. no harm in knowing how hard you can press down on it before it starts to slide. I'd do it more often but I hate paying for tyres.
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  7. I do it in the rain to save on tyre wear :D
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  8. reading title.. thought you'd been arrested :p
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  9. given my speed, I woulda been if they were out and about, although I reckon I had a good excuse.
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  10. One the topic of lucky escapes, over 20 years ago I was riding uphill on the twisty part of Kurraba Rd, Neutral Bay, on my bmwLS650, I shit you not when I say, as I was going round a corner the front wheel hit a large patch of oil, I don't mean an oily patch of road, I mean a puddle of shiny oil which I could not see coming. The front wheel flipped quickly and the handlebars turned sharply in my hands, it all happened so fast that I didn't even have time to realise what had happened before the handlebars flipped the complete opposite way and the next thing I knew I was not sliding downhill sideway but continuing on my way as if nothing happened. It was surreal and still seems impossible to this day.
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  11. I would delete the use of the rear brake for anything other then slow riding in conjunction with the throttle or tightening your line, once again in conjunction with the throttle.

    TBH I don't even use the rear to tighten up my line anymore, throttle control is all you really need.

    Its one of the most dangerous controls on the motorcycle and unnecessary in any sort of hard braking situation.

    At high speed locking the rear can cause a high side when you disengage the pedal, removing this potential risk from your riding will make your riding much safer....unless of course you want to learn to back it in!
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  12. While locking the rear CAN (as opposed to 'WILL") lead to a crash, I'd rather be dealing with a locked rear than a locked front any day of the week! The rear you can control a lot easier and stay upright, but you REALLY want that front hoop to keep doing the right thing.
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  13. The rear brake is a very useful thing. To just not use one of the controls out of wariness for what might happen if something goes wrong doesn't make sense to me and smacks of misunderstanding of what it can and can't do. This limits ones capabilities somewhat.

    HeavyNinja has made the revelation that he knows where that variable fine line is in having found it on this occasion. The point at which the rear breaks traction is continuously variable given various levels of application of the front resulting in a different level of weight transfer forward. ie. Heavy front braking will make the rear less effective in relative terms - but honestly, every little bit helps where you really need to pull up hard. Add to the equation road surfaces which vary enormously in the amount of grip they provide, and tyres, and it is a wriggly snake to be sure, varying also between types of bike.

    Riders should acquaint themselves with the use of the rear under different situations, particularly now it is wet a good deal of the time, familiarise themselves with the amount of pedal pressure required to lose traction and the feel of the tyre breaking loose. It is often a hard thing for less experienced riders to release a brake in the time of crisis to restore your grip on the road - one of those "panic, lizard brain" things to overcome in becoming a better rider. It can be overcome with practice. It is an essential skill. It is ALL about the grip on the road and knowing how much you've got. Getting off the brake in time can be just as important as getting on it.

    Practice is the answer. No practice does you no good when you haven't had it and get right out there in unfamiliar territory in a time of crisis. There is lot to be said for the antics of younger riders who explore the limits in showing off. Older learning riders sometimes avoid the exploration altogether and miss out on this important area of learning out of caution. A little slip now and again is a normal thing. It is really important that riders understand when it is likely to occur and can recognise the feel and the pedal pressure required to induce it in different situations and become relaxed enough about it enough to do what is required to restore grip before things become pear shaped. Engine braking can also cause a slide, pull the clutch or restore some throttle, shift up - all things you might do to stop it.

    Riding is really a head game when conditions become less than ideal. It is not a crazy idea at all to test the surface occasionally by applying the rear brake momentarily to see at what point it induces a slide, or to see at what point you might spin up in acceleration if think the road surface feels a little vague. You might just discover you are on a badly contaminated road and really need to take extra care. Application of the rear brake is the better way to make this test initially, a burst of acceleration can confirm just how slippery it is. All in a straight line of course, then adjust your riding to suit.
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  14. Not only that but it's extremely difficult to get any 'feel' from the pedal, you just feel the tyre let go. Whereas with the front brake you have four fingers which use a relatively massive part of the brain, feeling extremely subtle feedback, you get none of that from your ankle. When taught emergency braking, I was taught to practice locking the front and backing off instantly.
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  15. That's a good point Mr Owl PhD.

    Our feet are encased in boots (usually) and compared to lever pressure, the brake pedal is comparatively "wooden." Feedback is from the bike. You will feel it, and possibly hear it in a rapid drop of engine revs if you are not also on the clutch which most people would be anyway in an emergency braking situation. It does come up though when the skid is caused by simply closing the throttle on a very slippery surface. You might hear it as you notice the slip, where you close the throttle when running over a diesel spill or ride onto slippery clay or wet grass.
  16. yeah, rear brakes almost tend to be on or off, it's sometimes hard to find the sweet spot esp in an emergency situation.
  17. Good read Jstava. I will always use my front and rear together it is just how I ride, just like I am very comfortable pulling my bike up at low speed with just the front and do it often, we are told using the front at low speeds is a no no, but hey it works for me. I have taught myself how my rear feels etc since I was let off on my own, just pushed it a bit hard the other night. The way I brake however probably comes from trail riding on mountain bikes etc.
  18. a big part of that is your choice of brake pad...
    pick a lower friction pad and while it won't work as well, less likely to lock
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  19. This won't work with hydraulic brake of course, but when I had my Kwakka GTs I used to bend a double set into the rear brake rod (mechanical drum brake on the rear). The stock brake was VERY sudden, and bending in the double set gave the rod a little bit of 'spring' and gave it enough feel to be useful. I don't know how you'd achieve the same thing on hydraulic brakes.
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  20. Real soft pads, a less than perfect bleed maybe?

    I haven't ridden a LOT of different bikes - I tend to own only one at a time and keep them a long time, but wonder at times whether modern bikes aren't over braked a bit. I had a K2 Honda, a 1972 or 3 bike and it only had a single disk up front and a drum on the back, and I thought it was just about perfect. You had to apply some pressure to get them to lock and both brakes were quite progressive.

    Both my present bikes have 3 hydraulic disks and they are real easily applied to lockup. I sometimes wonder if that is such a good thing.

    By the way Dark Angel, I think that idea of putting a bit of a kink in the rod is a great idea.