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GSX250F uphill parking issue

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by RedCandle, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. Hi, I just bought my first bike, 1997 GSX250F, and I have noticed that when I park it at work during the day on a slight slope (nose facing upwards, wouldnt be more than 10 or so degree angle), I will have issues starting it that afternoon, and will need the choke on so it doesn't stall. I will then also have issues keeping the bike from stalling at traffic lights when idling (unless the choke is on or manually holding revs higher). It has also stalled on me going around a round about, I twist the throttle and no revs occur and I can only watch as the taco needle falls to 0, althought sometimes if I pull the clutch in and rev enough I can bring it back. Any thoughts on what I should be looking into?

    I have tested the bike parking, at home it is flat, so I have no issues starting/idling, if I park it facing downhill at work or flat, I have no issues, but if I even reverse it into a street park that is on angle, I will experience this issue. The length of time it takes to get the bike back to running smoothly depends on how long it was sitting at the inclined angle.

    Its driving my crazy, I really enjoy riding it, but I hate parking facing downhill for fear of the stand collapsing and returning to a sided bike!

  2. Hi mate,

    Can't speak for your bike, but I had a Suzuki Across too until recently. My driveway is a pretty steep descent and always parked it pointing uphill at night; never had the problem you describe. That said, the fuel tank of the Across is pretty different from most bikes. Not sure that helps! ;)
  3. Well, it's good to know its not an undocumented 'feature' of the bike! Only thing I can think of is the bike might be getting flooded with fuel? My motorcycle mechanical knowledge is limited at this stage, but I can pick stuff up pretty quick!
  4. Have you tried turning off the fuel when it's parked?
  5. If you are stalling at lights, sounds like your idle is set too low. Most bikes I know it should be around 1200 to 1500 rpm. Is it in that region? If not try adjusting the idle setting.

    Also if it hasn't had a proper tune for a while I would be thinking tabout getting one.

    The only think I can think of in relation to slope is that the slope may affect the amount of fuel getting to the carbs. If you need choke it implies insufficient fuel. Doesn't that model have its fuel somewhere weird like under the seat? If so I assume it has a fuel pump and maybe the slop may be more than the fuel pump can cope with.
  6. It idles fine, around 1300, if it hasn't been parked facing uphill.

    I use the choke so I don't need to hold the throttle open whilst warming up/waiting.

    You are correct, the tank is located under the seat. I thought it may be a pump issue, but I'm unsure as to why the length of time it has spent on an upward angle will affect the length of time it takes to 'recover'. I have tried turning the fuel off, no change, I actually thought that turning the fuel off was causing it to begin with.
    I pulled out the air filter today, and there is a liquid in the bottom of the air box, smells fuelly/oily, is that normal? I know the filter may be oiled, but there is quite a bit (enough to cover the base of the air box). Is this normal?

    Has anyone had experience with the carbys on a similar model Suzuki? How difficult are they to get to/open?

    Thanks for your help so far!
  7. Hey RedCandle.

    I am pointing my finger at the carbies. I have read and been told that the float bowl (pretty sure it's the float bowl) slowly empties over time, so leave it long enough and it will be empty. This means that when you start the bike up after leaving it for a long period of time, the fuel pump will firstly have to fill the float bowl up again before the bike will start and idle properly. When the key is set to ON, the fuel pump will prime, however the float bowls won't be filled until the engine is rotating providing vacuum to let fuel into the bowls.

    If you can, after you have parked your bike on an incline, roll the bike to say the foot path before you start the bike with the keys set to ON so that the fuel pump can prime, you should hear the fuel pump whir/whine/make weird noise and then stop. Once you're on flat ground start the bike up without choke first to fill up the float bowls...if the bike doesn't start let it sit for a bit (put helmet/glove on) and then try again. If it starts, idles and then stalls, use the choke...it might splutter a bit at first and then rev up to about 4000RPM. Once it sits at 4000RPM and engine sounds smooth, turn choke off. Once you turn the choke off, blip the throttle to about 6000RPM...there might be a bit of hesitation between idle and 2000RPM at first, once it settles to idle, blip it again and it should be less hesitant. From there the bike should be running normally.

    I don't think there is a cure for emptying float bowls, however it is a good idea to replace the plastic needle holders/sliders which are known to fowl and cause fueling/starting issues in the carbies. Also while the carbies are out, check the needles...I think you can set it so that there is less bogging down when the engine is running hot...can't remember if it was 1 notch up or down :?.

    Also to answer your oil in airbox issue. I had the same problem and I think it is the norm. I checked mine after roughly after 20000km and it was pretty close to touching the air filter. There is a drain plug under the bike near the exhaust. Just unplug it and it will drain the oil from the air box. I do this every 2 months now just so it doesn't fill up like it did. Not sure if it is normal...

    Hope that helps a bit and sorry can't help you regarding carbie removal, haven't done it yet...on my to do list this Christmas holidays. I had a look at it, but it seems simple enough.
  8. If carby bowls drain it will be difficult to start and may require a fair bit of cranking over to pump fuel through assuming you have a pump (some bikes don't although given the location of your tank I would assume yours did)

    If the pump is electric then you should only need to turn the ignition on and it will start up and fill the bowls after a bit. Some have a cut-out after a short delay so if the bowl are empty you may have to turn the ignition off after say 30 secs or so then turn on again for 30 secs and do this 3-4 times.

    Not all pumps are electric, Some will work off vacuum from the engine and if the engine is not running they won't pump very effectively, in which case you may need to crank for a bit.

    Again none of this should affect stalling at the lights.

    You should pull a plug and check it's condition to see if it dry/wet/whatever. This may give a clue what is going on.

    Just a really wild possibility - any chance of a loose contact or wire causing a short which only happens when the bike is pointing uphill? Probably unlikely but theoretically possible and would possibly be a bugger to trace in a workshop.

    Regarding oil in the airbox, to prevent excessive oil pressure, most engines have a relief valve and since a little oil/ oil vapour may come out this is often channeled back into the air box where it can be burnt as it goes through the engine. Excess can build up in the bottom of the box causing it to be oily.
  9. Thanks for all the ideas, when I get a spare arvo I'll look at pulling the carbys and plugs out.

    GreyBM - My bike does indeed have a fuel pump (well this is just an assumption) as when I turn the starter switch to Start, I can hear what (to me) sounds like a fuel pump ticking on, so until I can get the fairing off and carbys apart, I'll test out just letting it sit with the starter switch on for a little longer, see if that helps

  10. Wiring diagram shows an electric fuel pump.

    I suppose a question is can you hear it run and then stop when you are about to start after parking facing up hill?
  11. I have a bit more of a problem now, in the month since I last posted here, my bike was going fine, but I mentioned my problem to a family member who has been around bikes for decades, and he went a put a whole 350ml bottle of carby cleaner in my fuel tank.... now my bike wont start at all! Just sits there ticking, I have recorded the sound it makes, to assist in some way hopefully. I am assuming it may have just clogged up somewhere, and I have currently got my bike stripped of it faring so I can get to anything I need to. I was going to look for a fuel filter, but I can't locate it, the fuel line goes from petcock to fuel pump to carbys, so would it be possible the filter is in the pump? Would I be able to disconnect the fuel line from the carby input and attempt to start to see if fuel comes out the line? Or is there something I can add to my tank like metho to evaporate residual cleaner?

    Hope this isnt too much of a deviation from the original questions, but its all linked!!!

    Couldnt get the audio file small enough to upload here, so here is a link to download it


  12. I haven't found the filter on mine either so I presume it might be an in tank filter, admittedly I haven't looked hard though. If you can, disconnect the fuel line from the carbies and see if the bike would start with some brake cleaner or "Start ya Bastard" straight into the carbies. To check the fuel pump, if the hose is long enough, run it straight into a jerry can or something to see if the fuel pump is working. If the fuel pump is working, and the bike starts fine by spraying Start Ya Bastard into the carbies, I'd have a look at the carbies themselves and give them a once over. While you're at it, replace the needle holder sliders, they tend to wear out and cause some issues.
  13. Ah good to know its not my eye sight then!

    With spraying into the carbys, I simply disconnect the fuel hose, and spray a couple of squirts into where the fuel hose connects?

    Thanks for the fast reply! Im getting ancy about getting it fixed so I can enjoy the cooler weather at the moment!
  14. Fuel pump is working fine, so that narrows it down. I drained the carby bowls and the same coloured fuel that was in the tank was in the bowls, so I know the carby cleaner fuel additive had made it through to there. Now, does anyone have an idea of something I can add to the fuel tank/straight into the carbys to dissolve/dislodge the carby cleaner? Im assuming the carby cleaner changes how the fuel ignites, so the spark plugs arent able to ignite the fuel. I will drain my tank and fill with fresh fuel, but would metho or something similar help in this situation?

    Now, with the needle holder sliders, where would the best place to get them from? I'm in Wagga - Southern NSW, so online ordering is fine, any preferred supplier or website you guys use?