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Greatest, at least in statistics

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by hornet, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. While we marvel at the sublime skills of The Doctor (did you read he has just been given an honorary doctorate in the field of communication by the University of Urbino, in Italy?) who has the best statistics in the history of Grand Prix racing??

    It's hard to argue with the numbers piled up by the legendary Giacomo Agostini. Between 1965 and 1976, only 11 years, he posted 54 wins in the 350cc class, 68 wins in the 500cc class, 15 World Championships and 12 wins in the fearsome Isle of Mann TT. In total, 311 race wins, 122 Grands Prix wins, and 18 Italian Championships.

    Of course, he was 23 years old when he won his first GP, compared to the much earlier ages at our modern stars set out, so the chance is real that even this amazing record over just 11 years will be broken. Still it is a fabulous record, and whoever breaks it will surely earn it.

  2. Not knowing much about Agostini, many have noted that his bike always seemed light years ahead of the field (not detracting from his riding skills). Given Rossi has won championships for several different manufacturers, could you say he is beyond relying on the machine? Or is his team still a major factor?

    The only way would be to put them both on GP bikes of today and yesterday, and battle to the death :LOL:
  3. you are only the best of your generation, never cross compare generations as there are two many variables 8)
  4. I think from memory Angel Nieto is in there somewhere with 90 grand prix wins. I think Rossi has a fair chance of getting to this (providing he stays on bikes until 2007). But I don't ever think that he'll get to Agostini's record. You also have to remember that it wasn't unusual for riders like Ago to ride the different classes at the same time. Something that Rossi has been unable to do. Also, Rossi has had a meteoric rise to stardom and only spent two years in 125 and two years in 250.
  5. No, I'm not going to get into the cross-generational argument either, because it doesn't go anywhere.

    I must say, however, that the "Ago always won because of superior machinery" argument has mostly been raised by whingeing English journos, whose riders WERE riding inferior machinery, but that was because that was all the British industry had to offer. Geoff Duke left Norton in disgust because they WOULDN'T (not COULDN'T) build a 4 cylinder bike so he could compete with Ago.

    And, yes, Ago often rode two, or even three classes on the same day, which is why his record is compressed into such a small period.

    My tip is Rossi (who's Italian too, of course), will stay around long enough to go close!
  6. Just to thread jack for a moment.....

    I hate it when people get awarded honorary degrees. It took me a lot of work to get mine. I guess it just as hollow as if they awarded me an honorary GP win.

    Back to you regular scheduled programming...
  7. I AGREE, stinks big time, and usually they are people who wouldn't take the time to do the hard work to earn the degree, even if they COULD. Not saying Rossi isn't a great communicator, but really, anyone can wrap a flag around himself and climb a fence, I mean......
    (back to subject)
  8. it's an HONORARY degree. It's like find a police badge in a weeties box - doesn't mean you can be a real policeman.

    People who get honorary degrees don't go out and compete with ordinary people for wage-earning positions either, they are SUPERSTARS! They never need to have a real job again! :D
  9. Well, that rules ME out!!!
  10. I KNOW THAT, it's just that in the eyes of the world it puts the recipient in the same class as the person who earned it, even if the honorary doctor never practices communicaiton skills, or whatever. (I don't have any sort of degree, so I have no self-interest, I just worry about all these honorary honours being shot around cheapening the real ones!)
  11. Case and point: I could hold the 200m freestyle swimming world record if you compare my best times vs. the times in the lat 1950's and early 60's. That certainly doesn't mean that I am a better swimmer than those in the 60's though (used to be is a better term - I would struggle to make my personal bests again).
  12. People with actual doctorates or PhD's tend not to be concerned about honorary degrees. They see them as just that - honorary (this is my view from being with academics; I hope to have the initials Dr. very soon...).

    It is unusual for someone to get an honorary degree when they haven't practiced in that area though. I would have more expected a degree from some sort of sports area rather than communications - at least he has contributed to sports.

    And it was only a matter of time before some school in italy bestowed this on Rossi - he would be a huge drawcard for that university just to have in name, regardless of his academic qualifications. First in best dressed in this instance.
  13. On the contrary, I know several of my university professors were honorary doctorates and they were made so because of there extended contribution in their fields of expertise. While they had not completed there doctoral degree, they had completed Masters degrees and then undertaen many years of extra study, work experience, research and development in the field and could have done the doctoral degree many times over, that is why they were then awarded the degree not for being a superstar.
  14. Fair point in all three paragraphs, and congrats on your impending doctorate.
    Actually, in terms of communication, Vale's broken English, considering how long he has been in the public eye, and the fact that English is the de-facto second language of the world, IS a bit of a worry. Unless he is doing it for effect, perhaps his minders should do a bit of a spruce-up on it.
  15. I should amend my note: there are some who earn their honorary doctorates and continue to practice/contribute. These people are not frowned upon... I have met a few of those too (two that I know of...).
  16. And another thing, why do GP's get to call themselves "Doctor"? What makes their degree so special?

    I worked my arse off for mine and had to to work quite a few years afterwards on crapy pay to be finally recognised too. You don't see me calling myself "Doctor"

    Then theres the technitions that suddenly decide to call themselves "Engineer". . . . .
  17. Not how special it is, but the fact they have completed study in their discipline to the highest degree AFAIK.

    did you know: Doctor is a synonym of Adulterate? :LOL:
  18. Most GP's are not a Doctor as such, they are general practitioners or medical practitioners. I have done more tertiary training than most GPs. Most don't have a doctoral degree. It's only when they take their surgeon's degree (or a specialist/doctorate) and pass they become Mr. to set themselves aside from the pseudo-doctors (as a university friend always used to call them).
  19. There a long way from the highest level. They've just completed a bachelor degree, with a bit of work experience.
  20. .... anyway, back to the topic.........