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Getting back on a smaller bike

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by UDLOSE, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. This is a bit of a gripe of mine. Alot of people bag the shit out of small bikes such as 250s and even 600s. Once they're upgraded they never look back and anything smaller is "crap". The part people easily miss is while on their Ps (as hard as it is to believe) they aren't riding the bike anywhere near its cornering potential. They upgrade and so do their skills but they never looked back.

    I owned heaps of bikes of different sizes. My previous bike died so I'd been borrowing my gf's little cbr250rr every now and then until I got my new bike.

    I've done 1.5 track days on it and 3-4 mountain rides.

    I honestly reckon I could ride my Daytona 675 pretty damn hard but I can honestly say without doubt that on a road with no straights I'm faster on the 250 and on a technical section with short straights I'm equal on the 250. I've timed it point to point on a few videos that I've made over the years and backed it up. On the small marulan track I was lapping faster than most 1000s and I'm only 1-2 secs off the times of my cbr600rr track bike. Of course at Eastern Creek it's got no chance in the lap times but it's still fun out braking people and going around the outside of them with the tiny thing screaming it's guts out.

    I took it to Mac pass the last weekend and smoked my mates on a r6 and zx10 both with seasoned riders who do trackdays etc.

    This is a old grey import with 55,000km on it, no performance mods at all. Just a good pair of tyres.

    It's so hard to believe that something so inferior can be so good!

    Of course modern big bikes are more comfortable and practical but it kinda prooves to me that you don't need all the tech to go fast.

    Do yourself a favor and have a ride of something inferior and see if you learn anything.

    I find it's helped my road/track riding because it takes less commitment to throw it around so you have more time to work on your form and try different things etc.
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Some of the most fun I've ever had was on an RGV 250.
  3. Id love an RGV250 or RVF400 for a track bike. But nothing can beat the sound of a howling triple... Even a crossplane haha :)

    Sent from myPhone
  4. You're not telling me anything. Ridden for 30 years now, and the fastest and most fun bikes I have ever owned and ridden make about 50-55hp.
    And when I say fastest, I don't mean crouched under the tank cap on a mile long straight.
  5. ride a Harley like a super and you have made it :)
  6. Your right smaller bikes are great too,most riders would agree.
  7. Interesting post given your video timings.

    I helped a friend buy a CBR250 a while back, so I was the one who test rode it and later rode it around to trouble-shoot problems. I took in on the highway and was very impressed by the power and capability, both of which I'd consider perfectly adequate for a serious motorcyclist. Not that I'd have one - I hate the whine - but that's a different story (there's more to bigger bikes than power).
  8. makes me wonder how many guys can actually ride

    like when you hear about litrebikes that pass on the straights and stop in the corners

    all types of riding are good practise, moto gp guys train with supermoto and even MX
    even racing on postie bikes would be a bag of fun!
  9. I recently bought my GF a VTR250 for her birthday. I have taken it on a couple rides around my local loop. I have managed to round up a couple 'faster bikes'. And there is one section of corners that I am faster on the 250 than on my Superduke. I think part of that comes down to the fact that it is a cheap bike if I do drop it, so less worry there. More focus on riding.
    Also less worry about the power biting you in the arse on corner exits means more concentration on the corner itself.

    That is a big part of the reason I am thinking about buying a late 90s 600, putting some crash knobs on it and going to do some track days. No worry about dropping it as its a minimal investment.
  10. I'm sure many of us have had that experience. I had it recently for 100km, on a 40hp bike with a pillion and suspension set soft, stuck behind a 140hp bike with a rider that braked at the apex of every corner but left me far behind in every straight.
  11. I've seen you ride the 250; you don't have to convince me :LOL:

    We had a rider down here a couple of years ago (sadly no longer with us since he crashed his 50th Anniversary R1) but he reckoned he was just as quick up and down the Pass on his 250RR as he was on the R1.

    Mind you, he WAS an old "B" grade road-racer :LOL:
  12. i'm curious as to why you feel you are faster on the 250 through the corners than when your on a larger bike? And i say feel because i find it hard to believe (no offence intended). Perhaps you feel more confidence on a 250 which allows you to push harder?

    I recently did my first track day at EC (CSS Level 1) on my 250. I could keep up with most of the bigger bikes in the corners at the start of the day but towards the end of the day when everyone's confidence had grown, the big bikes where able to pull out of the corners much more quickly than me.
  13. ^^ New Rider is New.
  14. Why a 250 is so quick is because of opposing forces.
    They carry less kinetic energy. They have less engine braking. And weigh a lot less.
    They run as much if not more profile on their tyres with less width. Better turn in and more side to ride on = more grip.
    But why I thing the proddies are so quick is mental. Your all over a proddy. You feel in total control. So you grip lighter and turn more aggressively, brake later. And that = more speed big time.
    On the road I am much quicker on a 6 than a liter. I would put it down to braking.
    On the track it's a coin toss or more so the track. But most I would still say the liter bike.
    On a 6 I will jump on and go mad. On a liter bike I will have a little chat to it before I go out about it's manners.
    Ah the head game. Just when you think you know how to ride
  15. indeed i am a noob, you'll have to forgive me of my ignorance :angel:

    I think this is probably the biggest factor ^
  16. A lot of it is simple physics, as bretto has alluded to. A tyre with the same level of grip, with less weight to deal with, will allow for higher corner speeds/forces.
    Also, on a smaller/slower bike, you do not build the same amount of speed in the straights, so you can comfortably brake later/deeper into the corners. If you hold maximum corner speed relative to the grip level, you can get on the gas earlier and harder than a larger more powerful bike.
    In saying that, you really have to ride a smaller bike to its limits, and use every advantage to the maximum to maintain your speed. You can not be lazy like on a more powerful bike, and just point and squirt between the corners, and just comfortably roll round them.
  17. One of the reasons i'm rebuilding my 250 - funner to throw a small, light bike around than my tall 650.
  18. As they say, less is moar.
  19. I said quicker on tight sections of road not quicker down the straight at EC. I was 100% confident on my 675 and road the thing fast. I've never been out ridden on the mountains on that bike, i did about 30,000km of mountain riding on it in 2 years and 4-5 track days. Ive spent about 20 hours on the 250 all up. So I don't know the 250 from a bar of soap in comparison. The difference in the videos is clear - the 250 can be flicked into a corner much faster than a 600 (and a 600 quicker than a litrebike).

    I might make a video to show the difference. Bare in mind with the point to point timing, regardless of which bike I'm riding I wont go past a certain speed on the straights, but ill acelerate hard to that speed. But this is what road riding is you can't hold it at WOT till your braking point for the next corner. When I made these videos I wasn't trying to do a time trail or brake any records it was just a regular spirited ride in all cases with no plan to compare these videos. So of course in some spots I could've been quicker in places. But in all cases I compared 5 video runs of the road where there was no other traffic, 3 different runs on the 675 and 2 runs on 2 different 250s. These videos were filmed over 2-3 years btw. The amazing part is that with the point to point the video takes about 4.5 mins and all 5 runs are within 2 seconds of eachother!

    I also noted that having a pillion on the 675 added 15 secs onto the same point to point ride.
  20. Ride a 2 stroke 250.. now that's a whole different ball game. haha