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General Road Surface Question?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by Gustlik, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. I have not been riding for long (8 months) and was hoping for some enlightenment as to how riders deal with tar (Joel I think that’s what it is, but you are the road surface guru) sealed cracks on fast bends.



    I live three suburbs away from the Old Pacific Highway in Sydney, great road but its full of these patch up seals. Many corners consist of nothing but a web of these.

    Don’t get me wrong it’s a great road, but even when taking it at a nice leisurely cruising pace the rear wheel of the bike feels totally detached as it slides and hops over these seals. Going slower does not really decrease this. Does everyone get this feeling? Is it just a matter of overcoming it? Better tires? More lean/less? Psychological barrier more then anything else due to the lack of faith in my ride (its had too many problems for me to ever trust it)

    When getting back onto normal straight roads I still feel uneasy, the swingarm still feels loose. Like ice skating for a while then getting onto a normal surface and your feet still wanting to, well “skateâ€.

    Probably comes with more road experience but just want everyone’s take on this.

  2. don't stiffen up when you hit it, try and stay as relaxed as you can thus allowing the bike to move around underneath you.
  3. Less lean, more ass off seat, take it easy and smooth...and then nail it after you get over the bridge and are past Mooney Mooney! :grin:
  4. inadequate tire pressure start there :p , i have only done the old road a few times, but having said that i have never found any problems with the road surface well up til road warriors :grin:
  5. It's heaps worse the last few months, between Pie and the Mooney Mooney bridge it's all over the place, and especially fun when the sun's been nice enough to warm it up :shock: ...from there North it's sweet :grin:
  6. guess i will find out sunday :grin:
  7. HART Tullamarine's training concourse is covered in these things, and you do a whole bunch of tight cornering all over it... the slipping and sliding is unsettling, but prolly good training for the real world... :-s yeh, I'm not sure whether that's a good thing actually... while trying on new skills...

    Prolly best to slow down a touch and like Stewy said, relax and let the bike move under you. The small slides are stopped by the tyre rolling forward and reconnecting with a grippy bit of surface.
  8. Front 33psi, Rear 36psi the bike has just been serviced last friday. New chain and sprocket too.

    Best bit is the stretch just outside Berowra (the enterance to the old road) and between Cowan and TPITS.

    TheYak: More ass got ya :)

    If it stops raining some time this month. Rotten weather.
  9. is your suspension set properly?
  10. The black snake sucks dog nuts.

    I (Yak has heard this 10K times) think the Old Pacific Hwy is a shit road. Not because the direction of travel and corners suck, but the abundant sea of black snakes. When it heats up and they look like liquid, there is no fun goin on that road @ 60km/h regardless of ass off seat and lesser lean angles, it's still shit. Not to mention the now 60km/h speed limit on most of it, just low enough to catch you doing 45+ over very easily.

    As a rule I never leave home for a run up to this road, the only time I will ride it is if we are heading onward to do the Putty (now there is a fantastic road). I have lost count how many times I have declined invites to go for a run on the Old Pacific Hwy. I would bypass it everytime if it weren't for others who want to traverse it enroute to the Putty.
  11. As far as I'm concerned the 'Old road' is dead....


    :cry: :cry:
  12. don't worry the freak is coming up, never have i hit sydney on the bike and not had decent weather, well maybe with exceptions when we done the bells line out to god knows where, but again the weather was resonable til we got to bathurst
  13. This type of "patch" work is known as "crack sealing". It is mainly there to stop water getting in between the layers of road surface and greateing potholes.

    This product however should not be used in the direction of traffic flow for 2 reasons.

    1, In the heat, it will lift and tack it self to tyres, and spread across the surface and come out of the cracks. Then allowing water to get in when it rains.

    2, In wet weather, these lines reflect just like line markings, and the mistaken lines can cause a head on.

    RTA has sent out memo's and the asphalt companies aswell have written studies on crack sealing.
  14. Make that 10,001 :rofl:

    Nah, it's brilliant, that tar-snaked section is dodgy though, but it's maybe a quarter of the good stuff that's ruined, and you know where it is...which thankfully isn't on the best sections. I'm always happy just to cruise past Pie to the bridge to get a scent of any bacon anyway (warm up the appetite for a bacon'n'egg rofl at RW :cool:). But, horses for courses, I know some riders who think Putty is over rated, and some who don't understand the attraction of the Southern loop...I think they're all brilliant, but some people just can't be pleased :roll: :LOL:
  15. ^^ yep!
    and RTA south-eastern refuse to even use this method of crack sealing. down this way, if they are going to repair cracks as a temporary fix, they use bitumen-emulsion (at a controlled rate) and crusher dust. the emulsion is taken up by the dust, and therefore makes its own little miniature seal.
    the way they do that shit, is with a block of polymer modified bitumen (rubbers/elastomers mixed with bitumen), which is fed in to a heater unit and then comes "squiggling" out the other end through a hand-lance to fill the cracks in the road surface. it's a patch-up job to save the formation of the road and reinstate the integrity of the seal until such a time as they can afford to reseal it totally/properly.
    the problem is, there is no design procedure, there is bugger all QA involved so when joe-sealer comes to whack a nice new surface on top, the PMB reflects straight through the NEW surface and fu*ks it all up too.
    whats the real answer to resurfacing a cracked pavement i hear you ask?
    A full width S.A.M. (stress/strain alleviating membrane, using a heavily rubberised bitumen) seal followed by an Asphalt overlay. Or, for straight roads, a geo-textile seal, where you spray some bitumen, roll out the geofabric, spray on top of that, and then apply your aggregate. the fabric has omni-directional strength, gluing the old surface back together. why do they do the snakes instead? because councils are cheap-arse, and the RTA (who makes the rules) are even cheaper!!!
  16. as for the real question, though :oops: (i get side-tracked)
    if i come across this cabbage on a hot day, where it has become all gooey and shit, on an unfamiliar road, i just panic and do nothing. hold my line, change nothing and hope for the best.
    thats probably the best advice i can give you, when you come across the snakes, whilst cornering, dont freak out and stand her up....learn to shit-ya'self and hang on :grin:
  17. Thanks for dumbing it down for us in the end! :LOL:
  18. yeh but is it normal for that surface to make a tyre slide all over
    the place even in the straight as OP notes?

    I'm only asking because I have no experience with that happening
    to me on a dry road.

    Does size of tyre surface area have any influence on what does or
    does not happen?
  19. remember - the bitumen in a road, is only the glue that holds everything together, and keeps water from penetrating to the base. it is the aggregate (rocks/gravel) that gives it skid-resistance (grip/traction).

    here we have a normal seal-


    the tops of the stones poke out from the bitumen, and make it rough kinda like super-coarse sandpaper.

    now we have a pic of a cracked seal-


    movement from underneath, extreme temperature changes, heavy vehicles, clay in sub-base, differential compaction of base material, and many more reasons can cause this to happen. it is always hard to isolate the underlying issue until you dig the bastard up. nobody wants to do that, because then we are talking big $$$$

    now we have that crack, repaired with the PMB roadsnake crap-


    notice the PMB (mostly bitumen, remember) is above the height of the aggregate now? the rubber in the PMB ensures that the pavement stays together, but it also removes the viscous flow of the binder. it cannot seep in to the crack, or be rubbed away by traffic.
    the skid resistance of this stuff is bad, it is very slippery, especially in comparison to a good surface. things that make it worse are moisture - which just makes them fu*ken slippery, and heat. heat decreases viscosity (makes it runnier) so it will move around if agitated, this is normally where bitumen will pool, or track away to non-existence, but the polymers in this stuff make it move under you, but return to their home as soon as you have gone past just like a gooey rubber band.

    short answer, yep, they will do exactly what OP described :)
  20. Wow! What a reply.
    I'm more educated because of it approval.

    No Q's remain Sir!