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General braking

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Devery, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. I just got my L's today :), quite happy. Still need a battery for my bike and then to register it, but I'm nearly on the road. Oh and a helmet.

    During the test/course they told me that the front break is what I use for most breaking. And it felt fine on that bike, but my bike has drum breaks and the front break doesn't feel as responsive as theirs did. I was just wondering if the rear break is used more with drum breaks, or whether people use their rear break more?

    Thanks everyone.

    I did my test at Rider Brothers (riderbros.com) at Calder Raceway and it was great.

  2. Hiya!

    Drum brakes on both the front and rear of the bike? Or just the rear?

    Anyhow... Fundamentally, the reason the front brake is used preferentially is because during a braking maneuver, weight shifts off of the rear tyre and transfers onto the front tyre. More weight on the tyre means more grip, more grip means more stopping power is available without skidding the tyre.

    This doesn't reaaaaaally change with the type of brakes fitted to the bike - it's just basic physics. :)

    We might use more rear brake if the bike is particularly low-slung (such as a cruiser) or when carrying a pillion (due to the increased static rear weight bias), but generally the front is always the most powerful and the one used for the majority of braking power.
  3. I did my test at Rider Brothers (riderbros.com) at Calder Raceway and it was great.

    off topic but i did my L's there too, awsome bunch of guys. Jeff there is legend. :grin:
  4. Damn right. Made the day just that little more enjoyable, as if riding around wasn't fun enough.

    I have drum breaks on both wheels. The thing I've noticed is that my front break doesn't stop my bike like theirs did. My rear break does though. But should I be able to set it up so my front break is more responsive? Or is it just drum breaks aren't as responsive as discs?

    Thanks for explaining it like that though. I quite like physics but never studied it, but when things are explained to me like that I feel like I understand it more. It makes sense too! Go science! woo! :dance:
  5. I think that the drum brakes arent as responsive and also they might be worn out as well. I think you might need to get it looked at. Both brakes should have the same responsiveness.
  6. I think I will have to... It passed road worthy, but if it's not up to scratch I'll need to get it sorted out.
  7. Doing Q-Ride I rode a 25 years old CB250 with both drum brakes. Comparing it with my VTR (both disc brakes) it feels like both brakes on CB250 were nearly equally responsive while on the VTR the rear brake feels like is not stopping much at all, you can even lock it but you never get same stopping power like from the front one. Thats probably like 20% rear and 80% front while CB250 feels like about 40% rear and 60% front.

    But anyway better check your brakes before they get you in troubles, the front one sounds like might be worn out.
  8. Please afford me this irrational outburst today...

    BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes BRAKES brakes

  9. thank god someone said it!
    sometimes i think i'm the only one whose eye twitches when someone does that.
  10. When your rear drum breaks, you only have the front left, so you wont have a choice ;) :grin:

    yes, brakes vs breaks... pet peeve.

    At the size we're talking about, you'd be hard pressed to get decent performance from drum compared to the equivalent discs. You'll have to live with it and allow for it.

    What bike are you riding Dev? A bike with drums front and rear must be an older style of some kind... you will prolly experience a lot of breaking and some poor braking with that kind of bike :grin: ;) ... and unless it's a cruiser with a rear weight bias, the front should still provide most of the braking.

    Old timers were warned off using the front when they learned to ride - possibly due to unreliable front brakes... but front is where it's at.
  11. A few of my bikes have been drum brakes all round. It's easy enough and certainly worthwhile reading up on servicing your brakes, then taking the front apart and inspecting it. I'm a fan of the look of drums and so was dissapointed that my SR500 has disks all round. Now I'd never give them up!

    There's a few things you've got to watch with drum brakes. For one, on some bikes the cable can stretch rather quickly. A brake in need of service is most likely the reason, but with a 1973 essentially moped-sized brake it might also be that you're just having to squeeze hard to get what you need in terms of perormance.

    Another thing: a lot of braking on a hot day can lead to brake fade. It can be horrible! Coming off the Reefton Spur for my first time, 46 degree day, 1981 SR185 with brakes that hadn't been serviced since Poison was cool, my brakes (front especially) just disappeared in terms of stopping power. I ended up being unable to slow enough for the corner (for my skill level at the time) and ended up on the wrong side of the road pooping my pants! But there's help! You have a friend: engine braking! Learn to incorporate engine braking into your riding and braking (ask Marlon how often he sees my brake light on Chum Creek Rd. Read the article in my signature). Also, generally but in traffic especially, quite simply ride the bike like a 1973 CZ175 and not a 2002 ZZR250!

    Which brake to use - generally front equally or more all other things equal - but on a vintage bike it's a matter of what works for that bike. I still ride the SR185 now and then, and I use as much or more rear. But I engine brake a lot also.

    NB on motorcycle technique. Take the generally sound advice given out there about technique and learn it, but there's no absolutes after that - do what works for you!

  12. No. What they told you is that the front brake does most of the braking. They expect that you will use both to get the most effective braking performance. This applies equally for drum brakes.

    Use both, go easy on the rear. :)
  13. Don't put much faith in a roadworthy.. I had my BMW (cage) put over the pits about two months ago. Then found out the front right bearing was so fcuked the wheel was about to fall off :twisted:
  14. Given the frequency of misunderstanding of this lesson in the L's course by learners recently on Netrider, I'm half tempted to send of an email to the main trainers...

    (Not to accuse, but to point out that somehow the correct point is often enough not getting across)
  15. iF your Drum Brake is Breaking it may be broken :wink:

  16. This is not a pipe


    This is not a break

  17. Haha, I get the feeling everyone is laughing at me. But thats ok, I bought drum brakes...

    Took it for a spin today :) Stopped when I wanted it to stop so thats a pretty good test, but I would say the front brake is a little worn.

    I do have a new problem, but I will post it in the maintenance section as to not clutter this one.

    In a way these little problems are teaching me about my bike and I think its a great way to learn and I'm enjoying it.

    {Mod - break/brake corrected. For Future's Sake, please get the break/brake message! Falcon Lord may be beyond redemption ;) but you have a chance. Cheers, mod out.}
  18. That is true for on the road. But grabbing the front brake while doing a slow turning maneuver will send you over the handlebars. Seeing as you do mostly slow maneuvers at L's courses, they tell you to use the back brake.

    I've done this at said course when I used the front brake. :roll:

    So you might be using the back brake most of the time, but despite this, the front brake does most of the braking.
  19. You're right Megaphat, there's an issue here of the pactical training to a degree obscuring the lesson re the road, but my concern is that students are walking (riding) away with the wrong principles about the road; if it's too complicated for the student to be taught the distinction between how they're braking at low speed and what they need to remember when they get on the road, then it's too dangerous for those particular students to get a license. Not, I'm guessing, that things are at that point, rather that perhaps the instructers have to make the point more clearly - there's just no excuse for the number of new riders on here who have misunderstood standard braking technique.

    (To be honest, while trainers tend to be adequate and in other respects usually quite good, I've noted that they aren't in every respect the clearest, both in my own experience and when I've watched the training of others.)
  20. Properly adjusting and lubricating the mechanism can help. Lubricate the cable and pull the front wheel out to luricate the cam and the shaft that goes in through the side of the backing plate. Add grease where the cam faces slide on the ends of the brake shoes.

    The shoes could be glazed which can be solved by using some coarse sand paper on the surfaces.

    I saw your other thread, sweet looking bike.

    Cheers, Scotty