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Gear shifting

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by bradr, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. Question , how many of you do your upshifting with no clutch ? , my CB400 seems to change gear so so easily & a heck of a lot smoother with no clutch when upshifting , still obviously using clutch to downshift/start off etc , seems to just slide smoothly from one gear to another , where as using the clutch i get the usual clunk/bang that bikes seem to get in one or other gear as they are changing , whats the general opinion on this ?


     
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  2. You might get caught out if you switch bikes at a later time. I learned some bad habits on my last bike that my current bike was not forgiving of.
     
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  3. I've owned dozens of bikes, and still have a few in the garage today that all get a run.

    I often clutchless shift, both up and down on all my bikes. 2t, 4T,big bore, small bore.. As long as you are doing it right it wont hurt anything.
     
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  4. Derpends on the bike. On the DR I usually upshift and often downshift without using the clutch or with only a tiny tweak which is more for my own timing and coordination than any real effect on the bike. On the Ural I wouldn't even consider it without money in the bank for a new gearbox :D.
     
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  5. HAHAHA...gold!!!=D>
     
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  6. Race pattern, quickshifter....clutchless upshift - always

    Magic things, quickshifts..every sportsbike should have one.
     
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  7. I gathered I paid for a clutch so I may as well use it....
     
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    • Like Like x 2
  8. for what ?
    wheelies ?
     
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  9. clutchless upshift depends how fast i'm going.
    sometimes i don't have time to use the clutch.

    clutchless downshift i have no use for, because i tend to do stupid shit with the clutch to wipe of speed.
     
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  10. Had a big chat with a cage-buff mate about this last night.
    I don't do it intentionally. A few times have just kicked into the next gear and then realized I forgot to pull the clutch. I had smoother gear changes, but I'm not sure I could pull it off intentionally and... effectively. Something about having to know/feel the appropriate revs in each gear for the plates to be spinning at a similar enough speed to not do too much damage to them (can you tell I don't know much about it? As such, I'm not gonna do it... yet :p). Hell I don't understand how people do it in cars, thought bikes would be similar. My car makes a nice angry noise if I forget the clutch.
    I'm a little curious as to what would happen if I tried to up/downshift too early or late without the clutch on my bike. I imagine just unsmooth/no gear change?
     
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  11. On old car gearboxes, ones with no synchromesh or synchro that was so worn out as to be ineffective, clutchless changes were relatively easy and were smoother than using the clutch unless you were double declutching, which requires a bit more coordination. Modern boxes with effective synchro don't like doing it. Well, none of the ones I've tried have liked it anyway.

    Bike and car gearboxes are somewhat different in construction. Bike gearboxes are more closely related to the car boxes of 60-70 years ago than they are to the modern car box.

    The thing to remember is that the box won't change if it is under load. That is, either with the engine driving the bike (throttle on) or the bike driving the engine (throttle off). In order to execute a clutchless change, the box must be momentarily unloaded to allow its internals to be stirred about. For up changes that means easing the throttle fractionally and for down changes it means giving the throttle a bit of a blip.

    Happily these actions also assist in matching the engine speed to the road speed for the new gear. This is less vital for up changes but for down changes failing to match engine and road speed will result in, at best, a jerky change and, at worst, a momentary rear wheel lock up.

    In short, any easing or blip will allow the change to take place but the right amount of easing or blip results in a smooth and easy change. What constitutes the right amount will vary depending on the individual circumstances of any given gearchange and is difficult to convey. It's really a practice thing.
     
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  12. Just get good at both. It sounds like you are not quite timing your 'clutched' changes correctly.
    Usually I will do both or either as it is suits me, upand down the gears, but I rarely change without the clutch from first to second.
     
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  13. To change up smoothly without the clutch, is a throttle, left foot timing thing. To do it very smoothly you would want to change up early.
    To change down without clunking or locking up is changing down late!
    Up early and Down late for smooth clutchless panti...Ah changes
     
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  14. first- good question- at least top level racing wise

    my advice would be learn to use the clutch.
    It must be there for some reason?
    seems lazy to me, unless it wins you races

    then again, haven't really tried it too much
     
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  15. What is the clutch there for?
     
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  16. I mix it up, but find myself generally not using the clutch on upshifts from 2nd gear up. VERY smooth on the r1. And Tbh if I get the throttle wide open, I really am just concentrating on holding on, and that grab for the clutch seems unnecessary and somewhat dangerous.
    Always use it on down shifts but that's because I throttle blip to rev match 99% of the time, deceleration is much smoother that way when done right.
     
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  17. Firstly I've done clutchless shifts and know how to but for logical and mechanical reasons I use it virtually all the time....

    But seriously, to state using a clutch is dangerous?????
     
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  18. You shouldnt be holding on wih your hands, you hold on with your thinghs. So not sure how it is dangerous.

    Personally if I am going quick, I will always be covering the clutch on the RGV, mainly because I want to try to catch it if it siezes. Since I am already covering it, doesnt seem that hard to use it.
     
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  19. guess it depends if you're willing to sacrifice a gearbox if you **** up.
    i knew an amateur MX racer who changed up this way on a 125 though.

    -Yes, hold the bike with your legs (tight). Your arms should be as relaxed as possible (not loose, just firm but not tight) You learn quick on dirt when the bike tries to bounce you off the seat, holding the bars won't do jack sqaut. Hell you need 4 fingers to brake anyway.
     
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  20. You will f'ck up a gear box if you truly botch a change - clutched or clutchless, makes no difference.

    Again I ask, what is a clutch for?


    - - -
    Tapatalking loud, saying somethin'
     
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