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full car licence before obtaining a motorcycle licence

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by slyfox, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. on the monash university webpage today

    victoria it seems already follows most of their recommendations, the idea of having to hold a full car licence is an interesting one. while i can see a lot of people disagreeing with it i know that if i got my bike licence and hit the roads without car driving experience and the knowledge of how the road and its users operate i'd probably be dead right now :shock:

    it's a steep learning curve getting in a car when you're new to the road, let alone a bike :-k

  2. how about making everyone that goes for a car license spend 3 months on a bike before they get their car license and that would reduce the accident figures
  3. :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
  4. This is NOT about safety. It's about an agenda to reduce the numbers of motorcyclists. :evil: Virtually everywhere else in the world a motorcycle or scooter licence is available at a younger age than a car licence. Why should we be so different.

    It's on a par with the anti-motorcycle rubbish that keeps coming out of MUARC (Monash Uni Accident Research Centre - the people who brought you WRB's). They've stated before that the best way to reduce motorcycle accidents is to reduce the number of motorcyclists - duh! :roll:

    If you have motorcycle/scooter experience then it certainly makes you a better and safer car driver. Habits such as doing a head check and taking notice of what's around you become ingrained.

    I'd like to see a study done on the accident rate of drivers who have motorcycle experience. That could produce some interesting statistics...

  5. Being a biker who's never held a drivers licence AT ALL, I think it's crap. I was going to use big words, but no, it CRAP.

    Steep learning curve and all that, I did just fine on a bike with no road experience.

    In my opinion, the idiots that are going to kill themselves are going to kill themselves no matter what laws are in place.

    Monash Uni? "INTO THE BIN!!!"

    Grrrrrrrrr... :x
  6. You could write those stats on the back of a napkin - there aren't many i'd wager :LOL:
  7. The one thing I would agree with her suggesting car license before bike license is the fact that (at least in victoria) you can get a bike license before having no road experience or instruction on the road. Within victoria requiring car licenses would mean that an l-plater will already have some on-road experience and therefore will know what (to some degree) expect.

    This is one aspect of the rider training program in Victoria that i do think is sub-standard. At the moment you can find 18 year old riders who have never been on the road before except as a passenger in their mothers van and don't really know what to expect - and unfortunately some (not all) will not be able to deal with everything.

    However, the solution to providing on-road experience is not, again in my opinion, requiring a car license.

    I do agree with the rest - particularly power:weight (rather than cc restriction).
  8. And where's the figures on motorcycle crashes in the first three to six months of riding that might support this?

    Do novice riders without a car licence have more crashes than those with one? That's the critical question.
  9. I'm totally with Tony on this one. Would anywhere have numbers outlining how many motorcycles deaths occur in the first 6-12 months of riding...

    I'll say it again, it's CRAP. The only thing driving a car teaches you is how to NOT look in your mirrors and how to NOT pay attention to anything that's going on around you. I think Stewy's got the right idea, get drivers onto bikes. Give drivers a chance to see what it's like, and let them have them experience of having to actually pay attention to their environment rather than ignoring it all and looking for the next CD to put into the stacker after the new Detla album is over. (Ranting now, I'll stop...)
  10. i did my l's course with a guy who had never been on the road before. it was scary riding iwth him, i had already been driving 6 months inc drive to byron bay + 2 yrs driving with mum so i considered myself to be a competent driver, but him,. sheeesh :D

    i dont know about a "FULL car license" , youll still see fatalities, and it may drop from *100* a year to *90* a year, so theyll keep enforcing new rules and regulations, and eventually, because noone is riding on the road anymore it will keep dropping, not because they are training riders / drivers, but because they are removing the risk altogether by not allowing people to do it.

    maybe that was a bit skeptical :D
    a new breed of terrorism, rider renegades!

    * not actual figures *
  11. I can see both sides of the story. As a rider and cage driver, I can see both sides of the story.

    I don't agree with everyone having to get a car licence and there a people out there that do not need a car. for eg. if you work in the city as well as live in the city there will be more than likely no need for a car ?

    But by having both licences, you can also understand where a rider like car drivers to know what rider are going through on the road with inexperienced car drivers.

    Obviously you do need to give riders experience in cars to now about the road, but on the other hand, would it make sense to give drivers a little bit of information on bikes rather than the old proverb " Look left, look right, look bike"

    I feel if there was more emphases on car drivers learning about bikes, the accident ratio betwwen bikes-cars would decrease.
  12. Get the recently obtained "P" Platers drivers to do the learner rider course for bikes ?
  13. The thing is though that in Victoria the number of 21-25 year olds killed on bikes (supposedly the highest risk category) was equal to the number of 30-39 year olds killed. Now this may indicate a large percentage of this age group is new to bikes or returning to them but it is probably safe to assume that most of those in this age group probably have a fair amount of experience on the roads in some sort of vehicle. I don't really see then how forcing new riders to hold a car licence would reduce accidents but I'm sure that better training of drivers would certainly have an effect.
  14. No that's no good, what drivers need is to see what it's like on the roads, in traffic, in bad weather etc. What we need is for all drivers to take a compulsory annual pillion ride. It's not so much about learnign about the bike, it's about realising there is a whole world going on out there and when you're in your cage, you forget that. My GF is still astounded to this day by how much she didn't notice when driving until she started pillioning. It's all about awareness, we know that riders are VERY aware of what's going on, we have to be to survive, but drivers don't think they have to be as aware because they've got this bloody great steel cage around them. Grrrrr... Ranting again.. 8)
  15. Very undecided about what I think about this one.
    On the one hand, is it wiser to give a learner a 1000kg metal cage to come to grips with the road system, or a 150kg bike? It all depends on whether you look at from the point of view of the learner, or their possible victim.
    Riders tend to only hurt themselves if they make a mistake - not necessarily so of drivers.
    And yet, I have advised friends to learn to drive first, for the very reasons outlined in the report. Because I cared for their welfare, and I wasn't trying to talk them out of it.
    Also, the system in Europe is dealing with very different road conditions (and attitudes) to those prevalent in Australian cities.
    I've previously stated what I think of MUARC policy on other issues, but Narelle Haworth is not known for being rabidly anti-bike, so I'm not sure that this is motivated by that agenda.
    I'd like to know how long they are proposing you'd need to wait to upgrade to bike, too.
  16. Something very strange just happened.
    I read through the full report and made a fairly lengthy post with some quotes from it.
    It appeared to go through when I submitted and I viewed the post but it's disappeared.

    Now it's not likely that it was pulled by the moderators (not even the slightest bit offensive or anything) so what the hell has happened to it?
  17. From the full report

    As I said earlier - there is a definite agenda here... :evil:
  18. I think I understand some of the "Returning" Riders stats. I had my bike licence years ago in WA. G/F at time said "No" to bikes so to make her happy I didn't renew M/c licence (silly me). Got to QLD years later, new Wife says yes to bikes :D So I go up on Friday and get my lerners, do a Q-Ride course on Sat and front up to DOT on Moday to get a open unrestricted m/c licence. I could go out and buy a GSX1300R after holding a bike licence for all of what? 72hours from L to open. Of course I didn't do that but to some small idiot minority that might seem like a good idea.

    I don't think making people hold an open car licence first before getting a bike would do any harm. It may not be perfect but I can't see having a negitive impact on road saftey.

    Ps My next bike will be a Gixxer :LOL: or a Hardly Dangerous hmm maybe when I win Lotto

    Thanks for reading


  19. Yep, you're absolutely right (again). I stand corrected.
    I suppose we should be grateful that their "optimal model" isn't even MORE extreme.
  20. Yeah right, most car drivers wouldn't be seen dead on a motorcycle due to the lack of protection.

    Same goes for Pete's idea of an annual pillion ride.

    Imagine the legal action if someone was injured during a compulsary ride they are forced to take against their will.

    Riders & pillions are aware of the dangers involved and still choose to ride.