Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

focus on driver behaviour has exhausted its effectiveness

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by hornet, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. All they will do is lower local speed limits to 40. And a whole lot of 110km highways to 90.
    Then they will install more cameras at those locations.
    Plus they will increase the demerit points, in NSW <15km is the same points as <30 (3) they will increase <30 to 5 points.

    Actually making drivers at least read and understand the road users handbook is not going to happen. No money to be made there......... well they do try, you have to buy the book in NSW. And they wonder why people dont know the rules :evil:

    How long are people going to stay conned by the speed crap? Its far from the major issue but the government tricks all the idiots into thinking they are doing something about the problem.
  2. "They shouldn't be penalised for that mistake by death."

    MWhahahahaha what a crock of poopy! I say lets take the safety labels off of everything and let Darwin sort us out. Good way to filter some junk out of the gene pool. Over populated planet, ageing population, diminishing resources and all we want to do is stop people from dying from mistakes they make? Sounds like a good way to become America. Don't get me wrong, I still don't think it's fair that somebody should take out somebody else. But if a person is too silly to stay alive.. well... then.. maybe that's a good thing.
  3. Want safer roads, increase the costs of driving...

    License cost $2000, first f**k up and you loose it. Driving without a license is a jailable offence (no not 2 weeks suspended sentence, 2 years straight up).

    If you cause an accident you go to jail.

    Really I think it's the only way people will take driving seriously. The punishment for crimes nowdays are a joke.
  4. Thats a pretty callous thing to say. I'd like to see yu say that when/if your gf/wife/brother/sister/parents or any other close relative dies from making a simple mistake behind the wheel...

    We're all human and noones perfect, people make mistakes...
  5. The approach outlined in the article is exactly that adopted by Sweden many years ago - they realised that trying to prevent crashes entirely was unrealistic so instead switched to a policy of trying to ensure that none of the inevitable crashes resulted in a fatality (safer roads, safer cars). Of course the downside is that motorcycles kind of ruin this strategy and although Sweden hasn't banned them I'm sure it'd like to.
  6. well they could make ride gear manadatory for a start...this has already happened in NZ to a degree.
  7. jeez port80, heavy attitude, but maybe a step in that direction would help.

    me thinks a lot of the problem is the non caring attitude of drivers, 'she'll be right mate" or "it wont happen to me"

    more proper ersearch into what really causes accidents is required, not just the superficial police stuff that appears very biased towards the latest propaganda item of the government. In vic it seems every accident is caused by speed!! Then steps can be taken to address the real problems.

    Better driver training when getting your licence (car) would be good. I many people are taught to pass a test not who to really drive

    And we should stop calling them accidents. they are collisions, as they are normally caused by someone or thing......gets off soap box......
  8. duncank,

    some people are too sill to want to stay alive.

    how many time have people been discussed here for doing high speeds (150+++++)on public roads??? how many people talkon mobiles while driving with or without hands free??? how many people drink and drive??

    these are the d!@#kheads that are the problem.

    these may be mistakes of judgement that cause people to die for no reason. if people though more about driving crashs would reduce

    Others would also take less risks that don't always pay off.

    i don't want one of them taking me or anyone i know out
  9. My parents/sister have made stupid mistakes behind the wheel (drink driving), I told them exactly what I thought of them and failed to speak to them for a while. Of course this happens after a friend (sisters boyfriend) died drink driving leaving my nephew without a father for a while. Good man, but that was a stupid thing to do, he is the only person to blame for it.
  10. Yeah you're right it is a heavy attitude and whilst I mean what I say I have gone to an extream to better show my point of view. I guess I want people to be more responsible for THEIR mistakes. Stop blaming everybody else.
  11. I agree with the drink driving point of view whole heartedly, as not only are you putting your life in danger but everyone elses on the road.

    Personally I think anyone caught drink driving should just lose their licence for good, or for a very very long time, like 5-10 years....that will certainly make them think twice about doing it again.

  12. At the risk of offending the majority of people here (as a newbie, that's my job, right?), I'd have to say speed is a contributing factor in many a crash.

    I worked for 10 years as a driving instructor, teaching defensive driving/riding using cars, bikes, trucks and buses. One observation I have made is that a lot of people find it difficult to judge the speed of approaching traffic when they are in a give way type situation, especially if they're under pressure. This may be at an intersection, or whilst changing lanes etc.

    Instead those people tend to look at how far the approaching traffic is away and base theyr decision to pull out on the distance alone, assuming they are travelling at a predictable speed.

    Now if the approaching traffic is moving faster than expected, they would have just failed to give way, forcing others to take evasive action. Now imagine the vehicle who has just had someone pull out in front of him, his options are limited to either brake or diverge. He doesn't have much time to check his mirrors to judge the speed of traffic in the next lane, but with a quick glance he could see there's enough room to change lanes.

    Unfortunately the vehicle in the other lane was speeding, and by the time the guy actually starts to change lanes there is no longer anywhere for him to go. By now he's also too close to the car that pulled out in front of him in the first place, so he's out of options, and bang.

    Whose fault is it? The knob that pulled out without giving way, the bloke that's run out of options because his speed made him just a little harder to predict, or the second speeder who just sees some idiot pulling into his lane? Or maybe a little bit each for lack of anticipation/observation? Or was speed a contributing factor? Or driver training? Or people's lack of pride in honing their abilities? Or a little bit of each?

    After the prang each driver will blame the others. Noone will take responsibility. Now add people on mobiles, doing their hair/makeup, eating a hamburger, etc...

    In my view, it's all avoidable in theory, but because these are public roads, you will always get these things. I think the best way to avoid getting killed is to be as predictable as you can on public roads. That means indicating well in advance, maintaining a predictable speed, and rate of acceleration (many cars simply don't anticipate how fast most bikes in particular can pick up or loose speed).

    Remember, these are public roads and full of people with next to no ability or pride in their driving.

    Anyway, that's my sermon for the day. Fire away, I have my flame suit on! :twisted:
  13. No flaming here mate...what you said makes sense to me ;)
  14. Nice clear post bart. No need to flame. I'm not going to argue that speed isn't a factor in the road toll. I think that anticipation, attention and skill are also great factors in there too. These are just a little harder to target than speed.
  15. You're absolutely right. Skill is in selecting where and when to speed :grin:

    I hope I never get booked for "insufficient skill, penalty $141 and 3 points"... :?
  16. There is a false economy in this commonly made statement.
    Unless everyone and everything is stationary, speed can be claimed to be a factor in all accidents.
    Which further extrapolates to, "no speed-no accidents", fine in theory, but not in the real world as nothing stays still for very long.
    Each year the population increases, along with road usage and road users. Simple logic infers that with this situation comes more accidents and more deaths. Not something that anyone particularly wants to dwell on, but a reality none the less. That authorities have been able to reasonably maintain the road toll over the years is an amazing feat, but any increase should be reasonably expected.
    The problem is that a lot of people who have a controlling power over what happens on OUR roads (the press included), tend to take the Chicken Little approach and claim major doom and gloom for everyone.
    Mother Natures universal law of Natural Selection, assures that a certain number of living beings will pass from this mortal coil each and every day. But mankind in its infinite wisdom believes it can forestall any imminent deaths, further placing burdens on already stretched resources.

    My view on life may seem warped to others, but I accept that from the moment I was conceived I have been dying. Not a popular view, I know, but I don't tend to get overly bent out of shape with the passing of family and friends. What is important to me, is how I make use of what time I have and not to dwell on the unpleasentness that can be a part of living.

    There will always be deaths, whether road associated or otherwise, but an unrealistic expectation that limits can be set is fraught with disappointment. By all means make the roads and all forms of driving as safe as possible, but look at the bigger picture.
  17. I personally would like to see what compulsory road-skill courses for all learners, learners-to-P's, P's after 1 year, and P-to-full-license progression would have on overall driver skills over time before we give up on "driver behavior effectiveness being exhausted".

    It's like giving up when they've done nothing. Let's train the bloody drivers first, for a whole generation, and THEN decide if it's doing nothing.

  18. I dont see the point of your outbust, besides it being at 3am.

    A FEDERAL government plan to slash the national road toll by 2010 has been dealt a blow

    saying the police focus on driver behaviour has exhausted its effectiveness.

    Focus on driver behaviour, thats code for speeding. How often do they book people for much else?
    My point is theres almost zero focus on driver behaviour, skill and training, how can it be exhausted?

    Definatly road conditions can be improved, theres a whole lot of poles, barriers, etc that should be changed which will greatly decrease the damage done when accidents do happen.

    Many accidents are the result of stupid choices by the driver. Driving tired, drunk, unsafe speed, not paying attention, not looking at all, not leaving enough gap.
    A bike can go down fairly easy if you dont give it 100% attention, even then things like tramlines can get you. But to crash a car you really have to be doing something stupid, its usually the drivers fault not the roads.

    I agree that road conditions need to be greatly improved. The government know they do too. But they will just continue to lie and divert attention, they dont want to spend a cent.
  19. muzz I think you missed the point of the article, and added a whole lot of stuff that wasn't even hinted at in it, that's why I questioned if you had read it.

    The Police "focus on driver behaviour not being effective" refers in context to fines and demerit points not stopping poeple killing themselves. The article goes on the flag a CHANGE in emphasis AWAY from punitive action to dealing with bad roads and safer car technology; so what's wrong with that? If they put away the big stick and start to adress the issues that we here complain about and agitate about all the time, where's the downside???

    Plus, of course, the context is action by the Federal Government which will override and modify the present penalty-based approach by the states; again, where's the downside in that?

    Sorry of I sounded testy, but you didn't address thes very positive points of the article, and added a whole lot of conjecture about stuff that wasn't even hinted at in it....