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First oil drop, during run-in process.

Discussion in 'Bling and Appearance' at netrider.net.au started by tmg, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Just done 109kms and have to drop the oil in my bike for the first time, my question, though, is this:

    > Do I do the commute to work which is about a 30km round trip, but then head straight to the bike shop after work and get them to drop/replace oil/filter for me, or do I do it right now, tonight, and save myself the worry of whether the oil will hold out.

    On the other hand I could fire up the old honda and ride that to work instead. Just want to know if it's possible to go a little furthur using the oil that's in there now, as it is probably full of crap...it does look a bit misty, sort of a light dirty brown colour.


     
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  2. Do it sooner rather than later, especially if you have followed the "motoman" hard run-in procedure.

    http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

    If not, then it doesn't matter all that much.

    Cheers

    Trevor G
     
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  3. do it as quick as possible for your own peace of mind and you will be amaaed at the crap that comes out. Don't be cheap and leave the filter!!

    saying that, if you do leave it until 1000ks, it is supposed to do no harm to your motor.....................me?, I had to get it out ASAP.

    I asked the dealer about the motoman method, and he replied that the tolerances these days are excellent and there is an amount of factory run in already done. You may get a slightly higher HP, but don't forget that in the process, you are also running in the gearbox, clutch amd drive chain etc etc. It's Ok for the racers to seat an engine this way as they just change all the other parts each time and are continually pulling the whole thing apart.

    Not worth it IMO for a little top end HP that will rarely, if ever, be used.

    Jeff
     
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  4. 30 km isn't going to make any difference at all. Do the run, the oil will be warm and come out holding more particles than draining cold, and you'll save money by doing it yourself.

    Don't sweat the small things mate.
     
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  5. (Hope you dont mind me itemising the points and applying a little logical deduction.)

    These are all points made by motoman, and I'm glad you and your workshop agree with him on these issues.



    Hmmm...Motoman insists that the pistons on show have done at least a season of racing. That's a heck of a lot of road miles. Many racers do not strip down after each race (or dismantle the engine, either ;-)

    Having pulled down various engines in my time I have never seen a piston without blowby. Blowby is a major source of power loss - I am amazed at the pics on the motoman site, and his lengthy exposition. He shows pistons with "normal" run-in and those with his method - the differences are obvious.

    I will be using this method on our new Peugeot diesel next time around - that's May next year. As a $40,000 investment I'm usually very careful just what I do.

    Now this is the part that has me puzzled.

    Since an engine that outputs more power must be more efficient and also use less fuel (partly because of less heat-inducing and power-robbing friction) and ought to last longer, especially under normal use, why wouldn't you want free bonuses like that??

    Cheers

    Trevor G

    PS The unstated question above is: What could be wrong with the motoman method?

    Having seen the evidence and spent hours reading the theory I have made a complete turnaround on my previous running-in proceedure. This makes so much sense, now.
     
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  6. Done! :grin: Did the filter change tonight, did the oil last night...Don't ask how I got the filter off - it was on the advice from the service manager at kawasaki though, so it's sound :LOL:.

    Anyway, it's all done, and I took it for a run afterwards...Gosh it felt good! :grin: :grin: :grin. Way better than that old beast in the backyard! :LOL:.

    Guess I am just excited still, but man the oil level is spot on, no leaks (so far so good on that one) and it's just a beaut thing to ride. :grin:
     
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  7. I'm sensing the use of a screwdriver ?

    I just switched to using K&N filters which have a 17mm nut welded to the top so you can get your breaker bar on there. I had to harpoon the last filter witha posidriv and it gave me nightmares thinking about stripping the tin off and leaving the gasket stuck on there.... never want to do it that way again.
     
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  8. aww man! Gets it in one! :LOL:
     
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  9. What is with the changing of oil with so little K's ??

    I am sure everyone has there own theories and i would love to hear them.

    I have had many new cars and bikes. Have always waited until first services to do the oil change. I see it that if the manufacturer wanted it done earlier they would say so, thats my opinion only.. :grin:
     
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  10. I agree 100kms is a bit over the top, but if his mechanic told him to do it, then you gotta respect someone's opinion. Or as per the Motoman method he also recommends more frequent changes.

    I'll continue to do oil changes mid service (500, 3,000 and 7,500 - so far), I intend to keep the bike a long time, and the mechanic advised a good idea so thought why not.
     
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  11. after doing mine at 190 ks and lokking at all the sh1t that came out, I couldn't bear the thought of all that metal running amok through my engine...............I know the filter is suppose to pick it up, but an oil and filter change is such a cheap and easy thing to do.

    I am with Alex here and will continue to do mid service oil and filter changes throughout the life of the engine and hope to get a long life from her.

    Jeff
     
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  12. Ive done some engine building myself and I can assure you that changing the oil soon after start up is a good plan. As soon as the engine comes up to temperature little bits start grinding away on each other as rings seat etc. Most of that will wind up in the oil. A joy for the bearings.

    Also, I havent looked at this motoman site but Im assuming he advocates a hard break in not holding constant RPMs etc which I personally agree with. One thing that he may or may not mention (too lazy to bother reading it) is that strong DECEL is also important. As you seat the rings and little bits grind away, the decel will help evacuate them from the cylinders rather than having them sit there potentially scoring cylinder walls.

    Oh and please dont ever ever give it hell till it comes up to operating temp. The tolerances before everything expands are entirely different as im sure you know.
     
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  13. I am looking forward to being around in a couple of years, and buying all these bikes that have used the Motoman method for break in, I will be able to pick up very cheap bikes with blown engines to fix up.
    Advocating a running in process for RACE ENGINES as perfect for a long life in a road bike is plain stupidity, but it was on a website, so it muct be true eh? ffs..........

    Regards, Andrew.
     
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  14. Have you ever torn apart or assembled an engine yourself to really understand how it works? Do you understand the purposes of crosshatch on cylinder walls?

    If so...id be interested in hearing your logic against this break in method. If not...why are you bothering posting this?
     
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  15. this'll be good
    :popcorn:
     
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  16. in your analysis requested above, please include reference to the first factory run to redline through each gear and what your mechanic does before you sign on the dotted line and take delivery.

    Please further address all the track/race bikes that have 50,000km on them, and the gearbox lets go before the engine.

    Please also address the legal aspects of the manufacturer recommendation in the owners guide (cross reference Hurt report about riders to a new bike are most likely to destroy it in the first 3000miles or 5 months) and apply this to your metalurgical appraisal of engine development.
     
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  17. haha :LOL: Dont worry, I get the feeling he wont get past explaining crosshatch.
     
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  18. people tend to have a very cut and dried approach to things they don't understand (black box technology in other words).

    If it doesn't run, you blame it on something - doesn't really matter what but includes how you ran it in, the manufacturer in general etc - without giving thought to how the thing failed.

    I've heard people blaming toyota for making duff engines when the fault for it stopping was obviously the split fuel filter and nothing to do with the engine.

    The same goes for this argument - ring blowby probably kills more engines over long term than a firm run in does to start with. What these people won't tell you however is that, when the engine stops at 100,000miles, that the problem was electrical, or fuel related, or a broken spark plug or any of a million things that have nothing to do with your choice of oil or how you ran it in.
     
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