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First down, lesson learnt

Discussion in 'Your Near Misses - A Place to Vent' started by Maetrik, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. Well as the title says, unfortunately i didn't have a near miss but actually stacked. I'm devastated as my bike is a bit of a mess, everyone tells me metal is easier to fix than bones and i should be thankful im alive but it still hurts seeing your bike like that :(. Story as follows.

    Was going through a left turn sliplane onto a 4 lane rd, traffic on the road i was exiting had a green light meaning i was clear to turn in so i was going at a decent speed. Mistake 1, lesson learnt is leave the racing to the twisties or track. In hindsight the speed i was going despite it being clear of traffic was stupid given it was the intersection of 2 major roads. Far too many variables to be watching out for instead i was approaching the corner as though i was the only bloke on the road

    Shifted the weight across, got the angle right down and i hear this god awful scrape, footpeg hittin the ashpalt. Inexperience here. Too much angle obviously, however i didn't react to it and i was already tightening the corner. Someone correct me if im wrong but i should have stood the bike up and wiped some speed off, especially seeing as the road cambered away from the turn. Pretty stupid, but lesson learned again.

    The above has happened before but i was tightening the turn as it happened, dug right in and the bike slid out from underneath me. I slid on my back across 4 lanes and ended up in the gutter on the traffic island.

    Forks, front wheel and brake assembly are fine, lights are destroyed, clutch lever and whole left handle assembly smashed, clutch pedal bent in, mirror snapped right off.

    I can't go as far as to say im thankful for it happening. However its definitely caused me to pull my head in. I was starting to get too confident, pushing the limits a bit too much. I take this accident as a very important learning experience. Not only because its given me a good wake up call and the realisation that i was riding like a fool, but i've been able to learn this lesson and walk away from it. I completely understand when experienced guys say it takes years not months to achieve a decent skill level and even then things still go wrong.

    Anyone who has had their licence for a short period and gets excited at times, know your limits. I thought i did, until i was staring at a blue sky skidding across a major highway.
  2. Very lucky indeed on such a major road! The main thing is you're ok and you seem to have realised you were being stupid. Hopefully lesson learnt and it won't happen again. Pushing the limits on a major road isn't the place to do it.
  3. you are the craziest noob i've seen on this forum haha.
    if you stood it up that would have been way worse... you did the right thing and you got of easy for it. the mistakes you made were before you entered the corner, but you allready know all this.
    improving your riding does sometimes involve pushing your limmits but yes, not pushing too hard too soon.
    some of us only really learn our lessons the hard way... it's the machismo factor, otherwise known as 'young, dumb, and full of cum'.
    please understand that's not intended as a personal attack, it's just that's the nature of many of us in our youth.. but not all of us lived to grow old.
    the ones on this forum who have; will read your post and think thank God that happenned to this kid, because it was going to happen, one way or another... and you're very lucky you lived and learned.
    don't forget your lesson... or next time God might just king hit you, because he loves your kind.... and he's a prick of a God.

    why did the bike slide out from under you?
    it was'nt tecnique, but there are two possible reasons.
    1.) that's a public road, not a race track surface, it's covered in shit, loose shit and oily shit.
    2.) that's not a race bike, your tires and suspension are not set up like a race bike.
    you found the limmits of your machine in that envireoment.
  4. Solid advice. So many experienced guys comment on how they'd have loved the knowledge they have now when they first started riding. As i said, my judgement was off, my riding was not at all suited to the location and as a result i've gone down. I'm just cursing because 90% of the time i ride to the conditions and environment however i broke all my own rules. Confidence can be intoxicating when you really feel that you're starting to ride pretty well. Having 6 months experience under my belt should be the reminder to tone it down, i don't expect to get a 2nd chance.

    In terms of the crash itself it definitely wasn't the surface to be getting an angle on, i think the bikes ok because ive hit black/reefton spur at the limits of my ability and felt really controlled. I'm 23 and overestimated my ability. Had this lesson not occurred, the next one could have been fatal. As you said, sometimes you just need to learn the hard way and im thankful i could walk away. I want the beginners out there to keep your head on your shoulders and don't ride in an idiotic manner like i did, before it happened i thought i was in full control. Little did i know i had sealed my fate when i had decided to treat a slip lane like a corner at phillip island.

    I'm alive though and am already a better rider because of it.
  5. Glad to hear you are ok Maetrik and I know how it feel's to see your bike all beaten up.
    I have seen many people getting the bike over as they come onto the on ramp off Burke rd onto the Monash and seen i guy do exactly what you did. He unfortunatley hit the wall barrier and I was quite injured so thank your lucky stars you walked away ok.

    Just a slight note, you mentioned above that you have hit the black/reefton spur at the limits of your ability. I think you may need to tone things done and ride well WITHIN the limits of your ability - ie. 60-70%. The Spur is one place that you don't want to push too hard or ride at your absolute limit. Speed, confidence etc will all come with time on the bike so just take it easy.

    Have you done any trackdays/superbike schools? Great for understanding your bike and is a safe environment (well safer than public roads) to give your bike a squirt.

    I live pretty close to you so if you need a hand fixing the bike just give me a holler!

  6. Yeah i'm realising as the hours go by how much worse it could have been.

    Haven't done trackdays but im really keen, with my bike out of action it would be too expensive after hiring one of their bikes. I want to get right into trackdays though, get involved with a club and potentially race if i was good enough, technique wise i'd love to have a day with someone experienced who can point out any errors im making, the thrill of getting a bike on its side is something i've never experienced before.

    At least if i came off its grass/kitty litter, no trucks or poles :p
  7. What bike you ride?

    It sounds like you are saying that your pegs were grinding on the road, and then you tipped it over further. Am I getting that bit right? Some of the reason you came off may be that the bike "levered" over the top of that peg, lifting either front or back wheels off the road.

    Sounds like you found the limits. Time to move your pegs.
  8. Suzuki SFV650, what i think happened is it scraped and then caught on the part of the road that is raised where the lines are. Heavy traffic roads will develop ruts from the wheels as time goes on (as im sure you've seen), i think the pig hit a crest and just spun the bike right out from under me. I was tightening the turn as i heard it and didn't have time to react, so it obviously bit into something and off i went.

    It happened so quick i can't say exactly what caused it.

    Stupid question, but is that what rearsets are? Pegs placed higher and further back?

  9. Yeah, rearsets are the bit's that your pegs and heel guard are attached to. Usuallu held onto the bike by a few screws. You can buy rearsets that are adjustable i.e making them sit higher up so you have more ground clearance.
  10. good to hear you are not hurt..learn from it, don't push in urban environments..there is a time and place...go back outside and say sorry to your bike.
  11. Damn man, and here i was literally just reading your thread on freeway/high speed, and admiring the bike pic... Then i saw this :(.
    Glad all is ok, and hope the bike polishes up nice again. Said sorry to it yet? (edit: lmao rabbito, just asked same thing :p)

    Limits? Gotta push them a bit to learn eh? Sounds like you took a bit too big of a bite rather then a nibble though ;).
  12. I guess the benefit of it is i can now go for a new front end, looking at some crazy headlight assemblies so the crash at least forced me to do that. Wouldn't start yesterday, will try shortly, have no idea why it wont as it received no damage to anywhere i can see associated with ignition.

    But yes, looking at that pic makes me cry :(
  13. I'm actually impressed that a 23yo went down and IMMEDIATELY accepted responsibility - none of this "it was someone else's fault" bull$hit.
    I know I wouldn't have been that mature about it 15 years ago...
    I also think you owe her an apology ;)
  14. Glad you're ok fella and lesson learnt.

    I'm a huge fan of old mate rearsets myself giving more clearance. Just some food for thought.
  15. Haha! (y)

    Sorry to hear about the accident. Fantastic to hear you've walked away from it and even better that you've taken the experience on board and learnt from it. Extremely mature and a wise thing to do - something which many people don't do. As above, generally we find something else to blame rather then looking at what we did wrong. 10/10.

    Some great information/advice in here for both learners and experienced riders alike to take on board I think. I have anyway. :)
  16. Good on you for accepting responsibility.

    You said you were going a decent speed. What sort of numbers are we talking?

    BTW, whilst agreeing that you didn't get anything out of this https://netrider.net.au/forums/showpost.php?p=2070990&postcount=56 do you think you might adjust how you ride now? Either of the 2 Spurs would have you seriously injured if you did what you did on that road. And that would just add to the policing of those roads.
  17. Yikes. Glad to hear you are alright. I'm a learner, and i've started grinding the hero blobs on my footpegs, I ride a ninja 250. I was tempted to take them off, but i'm actually going to leave them there. My bike is supposed to be a commuter and while i'm on my Ls, I want to make sure I don't go too far. They do a good job of making sure I don't lean over too far.

    Everytime I hit the hero blobs, I stand the bike up and wash some speed...

    You mentioned the corner is cambered away from you, that may have something to do with your overestimation. The camber would mean you couldn't lean the bike over quite as far as you would on a flat road without grinding the pegs, which means you couldn't take the corner as fast because you can't lean as far... If that makes sense.

    Chin up, apologize to your bike, give it a full service, a drink of premium petrol and remember: nobody likes a ricky racer :D :D :D
  18. Having seen Ben ride, I know he is'nt foolish, and makes good choices, and has a good skillset developed on dirt bikes, that he has well managed to transition across to road riding.

    Ben, mate...I believe this was a case of rider ability getting beyond the limitations of the bike...but you were riding a razors edge, just at that point, because you are inexperienced in how to react at such a lean angle and it all goes to crap. So while your general experience is solid, some of your more situational specifc experience is an empty bucket. 9well it's not now, but at the time it was)

    Knowing you, I am not surpised that you came to the conclusions about yourself, that you did. You crossed that fine line between a perfect bit of cornering, or a crash, but you've been honest with yourself, and realized it without help from anyone. So yes, ther bike it smashed, but you're still walking/talking/typing, when it could so easily have been you sucking lunch down through a straw.
    Kudos big time for your self analysis, coming to the right conclusions, and for having the character to be burtually honest with yourself.
    THAT right there is what makes a good rider, good.

    SO accepting that it was not a good place to do it etc...the underlying issue behind it all was that you exceeded your bikes limitations - Thus the outcome could just as easily have been the same on any corner out in the twisties.
    In a backwards way, it was probably better that it was'nt out in the twisties, because you could have slid into the armco or trees, instead of sliding to a stop with plenty of space!

    Simple fact...if you were cornering with that level of commitment, and willing to take it further, then i'd say, that you have outgrown your current machine. You're willing and eager to push on through a corner that your bike can't manage at that pace. (that says alot does'nt it, mate)

    SO a few things you can do...

    1. Repair and invest a little time in regaining your compasure on the bike, and THEN start to really move your arsk across to increase the bikes ability to lean without touching down (which will also train you up to a higher level)
    This taking into account and accepting your bikes limitations, and learn to ride with and around them.

    2. Ride as you have been, but back if off a notch, and remain within the bikes performance envelope. (You may get bored with that, as I believe, that while you may not have experience at the more advanced levels, you do have the abilility, and mind-set to go there, get the experience, and as result, be a more accomplished rider.
    (THAT also happens to be the perfect argument with the missus or family for upgrading asap!!!) LOL :)))

    3. Get a higher performance (sports)bike, that CAN carry you further...AND also increase your safety factor alot!
    (That is another good point when argueing with the missus or family.) ie: You'll be a better rider with greater experience AND be alot safer "on a sportsbike"

    In the meantime mate...and as you have realized to yourself, you'll need to pull your head in a bit (Extremely hard to do -Something "I" can't do), and ride to the bikes design limits and continue to build on your foundation skills for when you DO get a sportsbike.

    Sorry you crashed out mate, but glad it happened with the results that have come from it, and that you are aok.
    Now the mental game begins, so DO NOT lose any self confidence, be reasonable with yourself, be detached from the factors of why it all unfolded as it did, and learn from it.

    Keep at it mate....stay focussed on your riding, not the bike repairs. THEY are just the means to an end. The end being RIDING again. :))

    Take note of all the good advice others have given you (I know you are already)...it's all connected with ultimately being a better rider, and hopefull others in your situation will also read your thread and benefit from the same.


  19. Ben, just to answe this question for you, mate.
    And it is why I press riders with some ability already established ( not noobs), to develop some skill and experience with braking mid corner, so they get a feel for what it's like and how the bike reacts.

    A rider has to learn a little of how to tradein cornering grip for braking grip, and learn to judge if it's even possible at the time.

    This is 'after the fact' of course, so I'll speak generally.

    Standing up the bike a little to allow for some braking is only possible if there is room to run wide.(usually not)...and if you grab too much, you are at risk of going straight ahead and spearing off the road.

    In a similar situation, through any corner, when your lean angle is maxed, you have to reduce it, which means running wider. Assuming that is possible, then here comes the razors edge.
    There is a limit to how much wider you can run, which in turn limits your braking options, so...simply getting off the throttle while allowing the bike to run wider (within the dictated limits) can cancel each other out and allow you get through by using all available space without overstressing the grip factor. If that's not enough, then you could drag the rear gently to assist in wiping off speed more quickly, and enough to get you around.

    There are 10's of different ways of approaching the problem, but it all hinges on grip and speed.

    In an experienced riders mind, this is a glimpse into his processing of a given situation.

    In too hot, going to exceed bikes ability, wipe off speed, but will getting off the throttle over stress front-end grip, or actually improve it due to the transfer of weight, when I reduce the throttle. Depending on THAT judgement, can I run wider, soar there any on coming cars that will restrict how far I can run wide, or will I have time to run wide and get back to my side in time, and can the bike handle it. Can I run wide and slow down enough to run along in the far side dirt edge, so I can avoid the cars that way, so what's actually on the far side of the road- culvert or flat dirt verge. Note- I'll need to be pretty upright or as slow speed by then to reduce damage if I go down.

    Nope, too many cars, gotta stay on my side, so shift weight way inside, and ease off the lean and ease off ( not just slam shut) the throttle. Front tyre still holding, the add some judicious rear brake, not enough, then now close throttle and focus on front end grip - no sudden movements, remain inert, stay relaxed, can I afford to gently drag the front? Or is the bike coming back into line enough that I just need to maintain current state. Crap!, I'm not making it. Increase pressure on both brakes, gotta gen turned and cannot slide into oncoming cars. Can I lean hard forward - will that overstress the front grip, or will it actually improve it, so I can brake more with the front, while I countersteer harder. Does that mean my lean angle will increase to the point of dragging again...

    An experienced riders judgement allows him to sum up a developing situation very quickly, because he has experienced this same scenario many times over the years. He knows his bike, it's weaknesses, what tyre pressures he is running and their behavior on similar weather days concerning grip availability, and has had to brake mid corner enough to have a good idea out of multitude of choices, which one's he can use. And if it just all goes out the window, and is going to crash, out of all the bad choices he's left with, which is less likely to kill him.

    These aren't thought processes, there's no time to think it through. It's trained and instinctive, reactions that take in all of the variables instantaneously, and that only gaurantee him one thing.... That he is far more likely to get it right and not crash out, as a less experienced rider might...
    Note I said "more likely to" not "will", get it right.

    This post is not aimed only at you Ben, it's just insights that may also help other developing riders, to gain some perspective on themselves.
  20. Sweetie I feel for you, under normal circumstances I would be only be to happy to provide you with "There's a time and a place" rational, however delightful advice as already being issued.

    Sugarplum I can't state this as factual, however I would surmise that your Hero Knob probably caught on the Tarmac. I have observed on two prior occasions steeds been spun around on the axis of them at point of contact. Lovelies as much as I loathe Hero Knobbs I adore Rear Sets.
    I recently acquired a set from the Old Dart from a company with the delicious moniker of Lust Racing.