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Filtering and Pole Position

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Menotyou, Mar 29, 2011.

  1. G’day Everyone

    New to the forum and thought I’d start a thread. I’m not sure if this topic is akin to the common nod thread, but here goes.

    Filtering in my mind is a logical use of the roads. However, as a caged driver who doesn’t like to hang around it gets on my goat when a motorcyclist comes and snags pole position at the lights, then at green, casually proceeds to a leisurely Sunday pace. If you’re going to snag pole, at least ride like you own it. Not mosey and meander away like a nanna. As a performance car enthusiast, whilst on my 250 or 400cc motorcycle would not dare of stealing pole from a Typhoon F6 or a high performance car of any variety. Bikes are fast, agreed, but some cars are faster. And they bought it for a reason.

    My solution is courtesy. If I am filtering away and spot a twin turbo Supra for instance on pole, I will pull aside the driver and if he launches off the lights then I’ll tuck behind him. If he dawdles off the lights I’ll round him up. I base my bikes capability against the car on pole and at least give them the opportunity to go for it. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t want to hold anyone up…

    There’s no greater feeling in traffic quite like having pole position at the lights. Moot point for bike riders. How would you like it if a push bike rider came and sat right in front of your motorcycle at the lights?

    Is this asking too much? Does anyone else agree with me? Or am I going to get flamed?

  2. 9 times out of 10 it's to try and impress strangers while they drive like complete pussies, from what I can tell.

    Personally? I don't pull ahead of a car at the lights if I can avoid it. That way, I avoid any legal issues with crossing the stop line, and I can holeshot them just as easily from astride as I can from in front of them. If they want to play stoplight racer, I back off and let them feel superior until I filter past them at the next light.

    Also, nothing short of a 911 Turbo or something in the same power:weight ratio is going to stand a chance against even a 600 if it's launched properly, for what it's worth.
  3. remember grue, a cb400 can accelerate as fast as a zx-6 up to 100. (https://netrider.net.au/forums/showthread.php?p=1911037 and following)

    Firstly, as for taking off slowly, i don't really do that without very good reason. My view is that bikes weren't designed to hang around.

    Honestly meno, rarely will a driver of that type of car try and do a light to light sprint unless its friday night. You might find the odd one around blacktown or wherever, but they will be in the 0.01th percentile. As far as I'm concerned, when I'm on the bike I have no respect for car drivers. I will park myself infront of them and do as I please, knowing that there is no way they can merge into me or do any other stupid rubbish. If they insist on playing games, I disappear. That might not be possible on the cb, I wouldn't know, but they will certainly have a lot more go than a 250. If push really comes to shove, you can then drop back behind them, once they are in front you can keep them in sight and watch what they're doing. Also take into account traffic, it's likely that if you were just stopped at lights cars were turning into your road - so you don't need to go stupidly fast to disappear, you can just weave and split a bit until there is some traffic between you. Continue on and they are history.

    However, if I have a choice of lanes to go in, I'll put myself in front of the car that is less likely to try and turn rubber into smoke on take off.
  4. I agree. I do make a point if I've filtered, to get the hell out of people's way. It's only courtesy. If the driver comes up behind and seems annoyed with me, wants to go faster than me, then no sweat - I pull over and let him go. It's not like I need to prove a point. I ride a 200hp, 9.61 second, 299km/h motorcycle.

    Now that isn't to say there are no cars that go that fast, but they are exceedingly rare, and I'm not sure I want to play with one at a traffic light with civilians around anyway.

    Whether I'm on the bike or in a car, it does sh1t me when people just have to get in front, and then want to go slower than I want to go. So I try not to do it to others.
  5. Oh yes i agree, but it's not really the sportsbike riders that mosey around.

  6. Good points.

    One other I should note is this: I use the acceleration given to me by the motorcycle gods to put a gap between me and the assclowns. If I can put 30m or so on them before they're at their cruising speed, it means they've gotta be a fair bit over the speed limit to be a threat to me that I won't see coming, and that means they're easier to keep an eye on.
  7. G'day Kneedragon

    Glad to meet another courteous road user!

    You would be surprised at how many sub 11 second street cars are floating around the streets of Sydney as daily drives.

    You just named one of my pet hates on the road. Another one is the pelican who barely does the speed limit on a single lane road but is a demon possessed whenever an overtaking/multi lane opens up. Also, drivers who can't grasp the concept of keeping left unless overtaking. It's really not that hard.

    Power figures aside, i guess the point is, as long as the rider makes an effort to move, i'm happy. It's when they steal pole and trickle off the lights that infuriates.
  8. The biggest gap you can put on them comes from going when the lights actually turn green and not waiting the extra second or two of most drivers getting eyes off their phone, foot off brake and on accelerator. Will normally see you through the intersection before the cars have crossed the line, or even reached the line.
  9. I for one hate it when riders trickle.
  10. Can get you the holeshot - yeah. Can also put you straight under the front of the d1ckhead who's running the red light. Watch the lights, sure, but try and consciously expand your focus into the peripheral vision, and be aware of what's approaching as you go to move out. One of the major dangers of the classic street drag situation, is that two d1ckheads become so wrapped up in themselves and each other, that they drive / ride straight into something because they were looking at each other instead of where they were going.
  11. Yup. I've also noticed the following: The morons that lift their foot off the brake and let their slushbox slowly roll forward in anticipation tend to have the slowest reaction time to the light actually turning green. Why? Christ knows. It really shits me to see people halfway into the intersection when the light is still red, though. I relieve my hatred of them by yelling "IT'S STILL RED, MORON" a lot these days :angel:
  12. I'm not content with watching my lights, I want to know when it's going to change before it does. I watch the lights by watching the other drivers. Once they start slowing down, you know it's gone orange. Once they're stopped, you know that yours is about to go green and it's safe to go.
  13. Damn, ya beat me to it. At least this use of trickle is more acceptable :D.
    Had a scooter filter to the front on the way to work one day last week. Then took off slow as hell and only went 65kph in an 80kph zone with trucks roaring around us... ugh! ](*,)
  14. Too right. Shits me to no end when I can't see the cross lights because of the hoods
  15. I unintentionally proved this to an unsuspecting ZX-6 owner at the lights the other day actually. We were both at slow rolling starts but i was in a better gear and slowly pulled away. He took quite an extended look at my bike during the next set of lights!

    Agreed. Unless there is traffic directly in front there is no need for a bike rider to hang around. Get out of the way as quickly as possible.

    Wise decision. And this is kind of what i'm talking about. Selective pole snagging. You can tell the drivers that will crawl off the lights.
  16. That can save your life. I do that religiously.
  17. situation dependant. Say you were sitting in front of a sportish car and they wanted to go. If I was feeling game I would make a fool of them, otherwise I would do as little as possible to encourage them into a race. If that means taking off like a bus, then so be it. On a bike, that would still be faster than the average car take off, but it would not be enough to encourage/antagonise the other driver.

    There is more than one way to ride safely with awareness, yes it's easier to be proactive and reactive about it (take off quickly then get out of there) but it can be more effective to just be in control of the traffic.
  18. Worse is when your going for a nice drive through the twistys up and the 3-4 sports bike riders are taking their time crawling around the corners and going flat out on the straights. Stay home if your going to get in the way.
  19. Why? That just unnecessarily antagonises people based purely on the whimsy of a mood. To watch them get irate? You just stole their pole position, you're not really supposed to be there to begin with and they have all right to be slightly miffed. The least a bike rider can do is get out of their way reasonably quickly.

    I don't believe the situation is dependant. We have to agree to disagree.

    Possibly. But no one wants the person in front to be a dictator of how fast they can travel. Especially intentionally.

    Personally, i just want to put some distance between myself and traffic. Not play traffic warden or control traffic as a perceived safety measure.
  20. Because it's fun. Also to teach them to not race bikes.

    Ahh, thanks for the edit, I get you now. That's what I was saying, if they want to race, sometimes you gotta show them they ain't got a hope of an icecream in hell. Make a fool of them. That's only sometimes, and only if I really feel like it. I'd generally much rather not to invite them into a race because that add's in variable you can't really control. Therefore, I prefer the second approach.

    That's just tough. I'm crying my crocodile tears. Unless you're (impersonal you) as subtle as a hooker under a lamppost, there is no reason for them to think it's intentional at all. Personally, I think it's just as safe to give yourself the same presence as a car in certain situations as it is to ride like you're invisible. This is one of those.

    As for riders not supposed to be there, the only reason I see for one car to queue behind the other is because there is no space to line up side by side. The mentality of riders queue jumping is a wrong one. Rather, the mentality should be that riders are reducing congestion by subtracting from the queue. If anything, they should be grateful for us.

    At the end of the day, the premise of this whole thread is that riders are somehow cheating by filtering. This is car-centric thought process and in most circumstances (if not all) wrong, and is just a symptom of the car-centric attitude of the road authorities. Sure, there are time (and fun) benefits to filtering but as monkeyman said, it's quite possibly the most important skill for a rider to have. The safety benefits from being at the front rather than the back or the middle of the pack are up there with protected sex.