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VIC Fender Eliminator, on the rocks

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Nickers330, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Yes, an ongoing 'issue' with many so not attempting to repeat common events.
    However, today a few of us hit the Reefton/Black Spurs, having set off from Warburton.
    Thank you to all the drivers (at least 6) for 'alerting' us of plod presence. You'll never know (though I did nod/give thumbs up) how much we appreciate this. More so, we passed at least 6 riders who MUST have passed the plod on their way down toward Warburton...not ONE signalled to let us know...what f***ing poor form ! You know who YOU are ! Again, why we are sometimes our own enemy.
    Anyway, 4 of us pulled over. After breath/licence checks, the 3 other riders were released 'scott-free'. I didn't even get breath-tested ! In fact, the (very polite) officer seemed to zero in on ONE thing...yep, that bloody fender eliminator !

    After careful, polite conversation on my part, I was given a defect notice, without a fine.. The Officer did say normally a fine is associated. I kept my cool as this was obviously a time where some would 'lose it' - I know when to STFU and 'play the game'....

    Given 7 days to 'fix' the 'defect', I folded up the notice and the 4 of us continued our journey toward Healesville, Kinglake then eventually home.
    When I got home, I sat and pondered on this, remembering a certain chat session on November 3rd, 2010 with LSC Craig MacKenzie, re fender eliminators.

    I decided to email VicPol on the address they provided for any of our future enquiries. This is what I wrote :

    Dear Sir/Madam,
    My name is Nick, a Moderator on an online motorcycle forum (Netrider). I believe an opportunity to discuss any queries with you directly existed in early November last year, during an online forum questions/answers session.

    Of all the enquiries being made by the majority, the most popular question seemed to be that of the legalities relating to 'fender elimination' or more so why motorcyclists are receiving defect notices and/or fines associated with the removal of the original plastic fender on motorcycles.
    Senior Constable Craig McKenzie, otherwise known as Mac online commented on the forums :

    "LSC Craig McKenzie (Mac):
    I've noticed a lot of people in the chat room are commenting on fender elimination and how it affects motorcyclist safety. Before I go, I'd like to clarify this point. It is legal to have rear fender removal, where it does not affect the positioning of indicators and required distance apart, position of the number plate and visibility and that it's eliminated in a correct manner. It must also not affect the positioning of the pillion passenger that may be seated on the rear of the bike. Hope that helps.
    Wednesday November 3, 2010 4:11 LSC Craig McKenzie (Mac)

    Today, I was one of possibly hundreds stopped on the corner of Woods Point/Reefton Spur for a Licence/RBT Check. After not receiving a breathalyser test, it seemed the first thing the very polite officer was interested in was exactly this - the removal of my original fender !

    My motorcycle is a Suzuki GSX-R 1000 (2005) model. It is well looked after, serviced regularly, always clean (to spot any developing problems, of which I've never had any) and cared for, as my life depends on it. The position of the rear indicators are such that they are 'built-in' to the rear fairing of the motorcycle, thus in no way contravening 'Mac's ' statement (highlighted) above. I never carry a Pillion passenger and my number plate is correctly positioned and in no way whatsoever obscured.

    My defect notice is C 484265. I would like to kindly query this defect, on the basis of LSC Craig Mckenzie's official post on a motocycle forum.

    Sir/Madam, please understand that the majority of riders are responsible individuals, abiding by all rules and regulations as stipulated by VicPol, Vic Roads and other governing authorities. Some of us ride for pleasure, others as a main form of transport. Collectively, and I believe I speak on behalf of all, we all value our life and again do the best we can to not only avoid the ever present dangers on our roads but to follow rules (as applicable) to the letter. The removal of a fender eliminator, based on LSC Craig McKenzie's statement seems to in no way affect safety, again, something of utmost importance to all riders/drivers alike.

    Based on the above explanation and in reference to the defect notice I received today, I would like this reviewed and a reply at your earliest convenience. I have been given till the 30th January ( 7 days) to 'fix' the 'defect'.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Nick XXXXX

    ('Netrider' Moderator)

    Airline Pilot Officer, XX Airways

    Keep you all posted...

  2. good luck... you'll need it
  3. Good one nickers.

    I have a copy Of that chat on My phone for such an occasion although bringing it up at the roadside May be troublesome
  4. So Nickers, does it say on the defect notice, precisely what the issue was? Or is the eliminator itself the issue?
  5. I read the transcript of that chat too and was very interested by his carefully chosen words of 'is eliminated in a correct manner' - open to LOTS of interpretation.

    Will be very interested to see what results! :)
    I've contemplated installing a 'rubber flap' behind my plate/eliminator that could be 'deployed' quickly in such circumstances.
  6. I was thinking wth the other title was but you fixed it.

    Victoria Police where we don't like you eliminating your fender ):
    Say no to no fender eliminators.
  7. What purpose does exposing your identity to them on a forum serve? as does stating your occupation? Have you taken any steps to verify the information
    you have quoted from LSC Craig MacKenzie? Did you ask what the TIN would be? I've never heard of a TIN being issued and nor do I do believe there is
    one. Were you given a minor or major notice?

  8. Good luck, Nick.
  9. I'm sorry Justus, what is your point ???

    I'm a professional, an Officer of another kind. I've earned that position from many years of hard work and sacrifice. I am called 'Sir' everyday (though I hate it) but I am responsible for many lives, daily ! (don't know about you)..If I'm going to be responsible and write to Victoria Police themselves, I will treat them with the respect that I would like in return..common 'people skills'. Something a LOT of riders (unfortunately) lack...

    Identifying exactly who I am to them serves as not only showing my respect but also validating my careful genuine query from a 'professional'...ie, not a hoon...get MY point Justus ?!!
    I'm using my careful approach to 'represent' all of us, from a professional's point of view who happens to also be involved in motorcycling. This hopefully will play a part in negotiations for not only myself, but hopefully all of us...well, almost....

    Being that you're from Sydney, I don't see how any of this affects you...but thanks nonetheless for your informative query !

    1) Rear Mud Guard - to be fitted to comply with ADRs
    2) Red rear reflector - to be fitted to comply with ADRs
    Minor Defect

    To clarify to all, the Police Officer's behaviour was exemplary, a real gentleman. I would like to assume this was perhaps due to my returning courteous and respectful behaviour. I am most certain, based on another rider's comments of a previous occasion, that employing a different approach would have resulted in a defect AND fine.
  10. Cheers Nickers.
    Good luck with it mate.
  11. Thanks Finn and others.
    Been constantly checking my email inbox, though it may be sometime (hopefully) tomorrow when a reply is received.
    Here's hoping for some positive news.
  12. I was not making a point, rather a series of questions and here are a few more.

    Again I ask, have you taken any steps to verify the information you have quoted from LSC Craig MacKenzie? or what TIN they reckon could have been issued?
    "obstruction of number plate" or something along those lines is possible, though its purely speculation without seeing a photo of the bike's rear.

    You don't? So you are of the assumption that the applicable ADR does not exist in NSW? and/or that there is not one police officer in NSW who has issued a defect
    notice to a motorcyclist for the same reason? 8-[

    Location has nothing to do with it.

  13. If location has nothing to do with it then Nickers330 exposing his identity and occupation should not be an issue either.
  14. The correlation you have come up with does not make sense, and who has said Nickers330 exposing his identity and occupation was an issue? ](*,)

  15. You said what purpose does exposing your identity and occupation to them on a forum serve so obviously it is an issue for you and you don't side with somebody else doing this.

    Perhaps you wouldn't but not everybody thinks the same way as yourself. We are all different.
  16. Justus,
    If I have incorrectly assumed this doesn't affect you in NSW then pardon me - I'll accept this.
    As ResmeN has accurately depicted on more than one occasion (thanks mate), YES, you did seem to have an issue with various parts of my post but each to their own, eh mate ?!

    By the way, I posted all that up to advise others on what happened today in VIC, to hopefully take a step forward and initiate a careful, genuine query which 'may' assist all (wishful, but worth a try) in our continued attempt at stopping this harassment us riders are constantly receiving.
    Only because you have persisted with your question on more than one occasion, what would YOU like me to do to 'verify LSC McKenzie's statement' ? It was stated in Netrider, on our forums, in an open discussion style chat. It's been quoted from not only myself but the many affected herein. You've read the response of our other members above in relation to this.
    If this isn't good enough for you, then why not offer your helpful assistance (the purpose of this thread) in how you would undertake 'verifying' this information.
    I figured a person of your background (Public Profile occupation) may have the ability to perhaps enlighten us with any info you may have.
  17. Nickers I wish you luck mate, but the whole thing's a beat up.

    The 'safety' aspect of the guard is it's designed to stop the rear wheel from throwing rocks up at any height greater than 45degrees from the rear axle. Hence modifying your vehicle has now made it unsafe.

    I don't know what the particular road law is you're in breach of that could get you a fine, perhaps Justus could enlighten us?

    I read the po-po's online interpretation and thought it sounded rather odd. So I'll be very interested to see what the 'official' response to your query is.

    Random breath tests of motorcycles that have just navigated the most treacherous stretch of road in Victoria.......who thinks this stuff up honestly.
  18. well written letter. hope it works.
    i was in Lilydale yesterday morning, beautiful day, thought about taking a quick stretch; but there was just way too many police heading up to the hills. all on bikes, even saw a "plain clothes" bike pull over a car. i did'nt catch what sort of bike it was, grey i think, big top box, un washed, you'd never have picked it or the rider.
    then it just lit up front and rear flashing signals.
    i just turned around and went the **** home.
    i have a similar idea to The Russ, but i'm thinking of fabricating a generously large piece of thin aluminium that can clip on and of. then i"ll glue reflectors all over it.
    but theres plenty of of other ways they could defect my bike unfortunately.
    and it's yet to so much as slightly injure a single kitten.
  19. A search shows that the fine issued in Victoria is under code 2143, under the Road Safety Vehicle Regs 419 or 819 and as 1) Use vehicle that doesn't comply with the standards of registration or 2) Use unsafe vehicle.

    And my 2c worth I reckon you were right to be polite at the stop Nickers, prob stopped the fine being issued.
  20. Let us know how you go Nickers, & good luck!