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Fed up with things falling off (rant)

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by lefty, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. So I was expecting to go for a ride yesterday evening and then I decided to look over the bike. What do I find?? One of the bolts holding the exhaust manifold on is completely gone! :eek: :(

    The other is distinctly finger loose. So out comes the toolbox and I start fiddling. I'm hoping I've managed to tighten what's left to get me in and out of work at least until I've got it fixed.

    Not only that, but not just the nut has come off. The entire :censored: thread that sticks out from the head has disappeared too!

    So far I've lost: Bolt holding shifter & pegs on, almost lost my P-plate, rego label gone and now this... :mad:

    Grrrrr. :(
  2. At risk of sounding predictable.... Locktite. A lot of the fasteners on bikes are smaller than ideal, ie, you can't really do the bastards up because the threads will strip. Locktite can be a good substitute for taking the risk of over-tightening fasteners. A regular wash is also a good time tomcheck these things, as you say.

    It does suck though.
  3. Yep loctite works well for some applications - but won't do much for anything exposed to heat (like exhaust bolts). For those you're going to want to invest in a decent torque wrench and make sure everything is done up to spec (something which the dealer who did the pre-delivery presumably failed to do).
  4. the high temp red loctite recommends a break temperature of 250celcius. If you have hangar bolts getting to that temp, you have serious problems!

    The alternatives are mechanical locks (star or spring washers), but they aren't suitable for putting against machined surfaces or in stud type applications.
  5. Break temp of the red might be 250 - but both blue and red lose 75% of their strength at just 150 degrees.
  6. Torque wrench is a good suggestion, however the bolt in question was only supposed to be done up to 18Nm? Which I don't think is that tight.
  7. do you imply that high temperature creep is an issue? or that you need complete thread coverage at room temp strength in order to hold a fastener?

    They are fundamentally different chemistries anyway. Blue is brittle (elastic), red is plastic.
  8. Nothing beats preventative maintenance.
    The manifold bolt didn't just "fall out" it was loose for ages.
    Check everything on your bike at least weekly.
  9. 18nm sounds about right for an exhaust stud. They can't be done up too tight because of the difference in expansion rates between the alloy engine block and the steel of the exhaust.
  10. for a 2007 bike, it can't be that far. A learner/P plater probably hasn't gone that far on it as well. Ie not old in age, or miles.

    Preventative maintenance doesn't really come into it at this point. You should be pointing the finger at the dealer who signed off the delivery/assembly checklist.
  11. Not implying anything. The material data from Loctite themselves plainly states that it does lose strength at temperature. Whether 25% of the original strength is still enough to retain the bolt or not would depend on a lot of variables, but I know I wouldn't rely on threadlock alone.

    Edit: See for yourself
    blue loctite data
    red loctite data
  12. crumbs, it's only vibration - not having to withstand someone hanging off the nut with a breaker bar! :p
  13. True, but I have had a loctited engine cover bolt fall out before. Although since I'm not the one that put it in there I've no idea if that was heat or just crap threadlock (or both).
  14. oily threads probably, combined with your ideas.
  15. Ok lets not do any checks and ride until the wheels fall off.
    Its the riders responsibility end of story.........
  16. after a certain period, certainly. But for an essentially new vehicle, as delivered it should not be the owners responsibility to check fasteners. How many mechanics to you think strip their own vehicles to check the fasteners, let alone joe average.

    I think you're being very tight fisted on this. If he was talking about a 20 year old rusty bike found in his granddads shed, sure. But a (presumably - OP can confirm) dealer serviced bike up to this point you shouldn't be checking these things.

    Now be honest with us - when was the last time you checked the torque on your clipons or the rear shock mount? Every week huh?
  17. I check everything on my bikes every week. The rear shock mount is a pr!ck to get to but a visual is still done.

    You'd be surprised what works loose even on new bikes. Even more than on our 2000 ZZR.

    Each to their own by the looks of it :wink:
  18. congratulations mate - you've now got to exactly the same point as the OP. He was doing the same visual checks you say you are. Aside from the glaring point that you can't tell visually that a fastener is backing out (or plastically deforming or creeping), you are doing the same as him, and yet he is at fault for it?

    Crikey, that's just unaustralian! :LOL:
  19. For sure. I should have noticed it earlier, like the other bits that fell off.

    Two important points however:
    * It sucks that this happened; it put me in a foul mood to start the week :evil:
    * Doubtless many other people pay even less attention than I, and I try to look over all the obvious stuff every couple of rides

    Good memory port! 18 nm you are correct. :)

    I have ordered replacements and apparently Honda have none; so there's a two - three week wait. :(

    Edit: Might try some locktite although by the sounds of it, it mightn't do much good. I dunno what the temp of the head is, but on a hot day I would estimate it's well in excess of 150 deg.