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fear of jumping on front brake and tendency to lock back up

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Matthew, May 16, 2004.

  1. just wondering if anyone can help me since i have bought a new bike (vtr250) i seem to jump on the back brake first resulting in lock up and a fish tail or sideways slide

    or i totally forget the front brake and again resulting in the back locking up and sliding.

    this morning i was approaching an intersection i knew the the lights were going to change as they had been green for a while and i had slowed down then they changed to amber so i started braking front and back this time and again locked back wheel but ran out stopping distance and had to let the brakes go and quickly accelerate through the red light. :oops: :oops:

    anyone got any tips :idea: :idea:

    cheers Mathew :oops: :oops:

  2. yeah well this sounds like a good one...

    The general and simple rule for braking is 75/25, 75% front brake and 25% rear brake. Sound easy aye.

    I guess the first thing to ask is how long you been riding for?

    Other than that hit the empty carparks and practice your braking.
    Front brakes aren't that easy to lock up unless you just slam it on, but simply practice, practice and then some more and soon enough you will get the hang of it.

    Bikes were designed to stop using both front and rear brakes together, Once you lock up that rear tyre its really of no benifit to you at all. So once it locks release and apply graduall preasure again.

    If you want i can meet you in a carpark and give you a few pointers to help you out. Plenty of car parks out our side of town
    As soon as any brake locks release it and then reaply.
  3. Spot on , thats one of the first thing i learnt was the 75/25 ratio and have never locked my wheels up . (on purpose is another thing )
  4. Yep as the boys have said. If ya need proof then go to a large carpark and at a set speed and marker measure how long it takes to stop only using the front and only using the back. It will dawn on you very quickly to get out of the BAD habit of using and relying on the rear brakes.
  5. Matthew, I've been riding for about 5 months but have the benefit of 17 years of driving behind me.

    some points to consider..

    Braking on a bike requires skills that need to be developed and practiced (in a variety of conditions). Through practice you develop a feel for what pressures give you the best stopping results.

    Slow down...You are going too fast if you are relying on optimal breaking to stop in time. Even with a full lock up you should have allowed enough time and space to stop. When learning you probably should even have enough room to stop back break only...

    Try rear braking more with you big toe rather than the ball of your foot. I was making this mistake and jumping on the back with too much pressure and no feel.

    The back brake plays more of a role in keeping the bike steady rather than stopping it.

    What gave me the biggest benefit was a couple of decent training courses and MANY hours spend riding around empty housing estates practicing swerves, braking, cornering. I actually find this enjoyable and comforting in the knowledge that I can make a mistake and the consequences will be minor.

    Take these guys up on there offer to help. There mostly pretty good blokes and go out of there way to help fellow riders.

    finally, do whatever it takes to get this skill up to speed quickly. It is critical.
  6. Under good traction conditions, I don't touch the rear brake.

    Braking hard with the front brake will result in the rear wheel being very light (or even airbourne), which means it will take very little braking effort to lock up the rear wheel.

    Some racers hit the rear brake just before the real braking effort - this settles the bike. But they release the rear brake once the real braking effort starts - I don't have enough coordination to do this.

    In poor traction conditions (ie. wet weather, dirt road, etc.), I'm not going to brake hard enough to lift the rear wheel. Therefore there will be enough weight left on the rear wheel to make the rear brake effective - so spreading the braking load between the 2 wheels makes a lot more sense.

    The 75/25% rule is very generic. It is probably appropriate for bikes such as the VTR250 (or the Across). But you only have to compare the size of rear brake disk on the VTR250 to a modern sportsbike's, to see that the modern sportsbike is not designed for rear wheel braking.
  7. How do you actually :lock up" the brakes?? :?
  8. but there also reconsidering the current training of 90/10

    I'de really like to see you pull up the Hayabussa i ride with only the front brake, it aint gonna happen. But then i guess also as a modern sportsbike we have things like VFR, CBR, ZX12R to name a few that auto use both front and rear.

    Some racers also ride the rear brake through the corner to maintain a higher speed. Also on older bikes at high speed you enter the corner with the rear brake

    Probably the only part i agree on, as has been shown over the year's you need both brakes to maximise you stopping power.

  9. I should have been more specific, but the Hayabussa, VFR & ZX12R are not the type of bikes I was referring to when I said modern sportsbikes. Maybe I should have said race replicas.

    And I've never heard of a CBR with linked brakes (and I own a CBR600).

    In Twist of the Wrist II, Keith Code suggests only using the front brake.
  10. I just realised you would have been referring to the Blackbird (CBR1100XX)
  11. The ZX12R does not have that auto crap on it like the Blackbird. I think it is only the blackbird but it is definitely a Honda thing. Side note if it was that good they would put it on all there models anyway (IMHO).

    Also a EYEABUSA needs both back and front to stop as they had only 4 pistons up front untill they saw the light of Kawi who uses 6 and copied a good idea. When I'm travelling warspeed I will throw out the anchors on the front ONLY. Very rarely will I use the rear. The 12 pulls up very smartly with the front once the suspension has been diallied in. I do use the rear at times but mainly for stability. The rear helps to keep your line in a bend when washing off some speed as the 12 has a nasty habit of sitting up (more so than other bikes.....due to weight etc). If I need to stop 20 metres back (the oh shit syndrome) then I use both with the rear being used at a controlled rate to avoid rear wheel lock up.

    At the end of the day it comes down to experience. The more you ride the more experience you will gain.
    Without sounding like a smartass (argh bugger it) if you have no brake control, how the hell did you get ya bike licence. Mate you seriously need to do a course on bike control. If you cant stop at a red light when you had plenty of oportunity to do so what the hell are you going to do when YOUR LIFE DEPENDS UPON STOPPING, what.......just do a rear wheel lock up slide into the accident. Seriosly mate you need to go and do the course again or do some braking courses as your life may depend on these BASIC skills one day. Just ask some of the riders on the site hear who ride for a living like folma and biker_chic72. Those guys are couriers and if there like me, they see shit happen to them on a daily basis, eg. cars swerving into your lane, getting cut off etc, etc. If you cant control your bike you are going to have an accident real soon. Mate take this warning as GOSPEL ACCORDING TO DAZZA :LOL: 8)

  12. Yeap and when he grows up hes gonna buy a real bike :LOL: :p an Across

    Musty bypasses the flamesuit and heads straigh to the underground in France :p
  13. Macca-My 97 CBR1000F has duel braking. Feels weird when you first start out that's for sure.
  14. I have to go along with the general vibe here. I was more than a bit alarmed to read that you had such difficulty pulling up to the red light. That could be a fatal error if you don't get it right immediately.

    If you are worried about front wheel lock up - don't, it's not as easy as it sounds and is less of a worry to, say, riding under the wheels of a semi.
    All the effective braking happens at the front. As soon as you apply the front brakes weight transfers to the front increasing pressure on the front wheel and (for want of a better word) flattening it out more and increasing the foot print on the ground which increases grip and helps you stop better.

    The best way to stop in the minimum distance is to use both brakes but the emphasis should always be on the front brakes. For your own continued good health get on top of this ASAP.
  15. Ummm................just shaking my head and laughing :shock: :LOL: :LOL: 8) oh and Brian your a rite PR#$K lol. Might have to come on the ride on Sunday now to stich you up.

  16. Just as an aside...

    I for sure have learnt bad braking habits due to the FZR having a bent front disk or two...

    This was without a doubt a contributing factor during 'the incident'...
  17. I havent read all the previous posts but check your back brakes to make sure they are correctly fitted , if you are just dabbing the foot brake and they are locking then there might be a problem .

    i dont know if they would work properly or how they could be incorrectly fitted or maybe if the oil is over full and there is excessive pressure or something but have it looked at or get someone who rides to take it for a burn for them to see if they are extremally touchy and if everything is OK mechanically

    also dont be deturbed by asking questions , it might save your life .
    dazza is a hard man , but does have a good point , get some help with riding skills and practice if your brakes are mechanically fine .
    the more help you get the safer you will be and the longer you will live.
  18. What's the latest? Have you had any extra training? Have you had the brakes checked and are your stopping any better?
  19. i think we scared him away
  20. We............. not we.........you mate you intimidated the poor bugger :LOL: :LOL:
    But seriously Mathew how is it going mate. Like Deyago said where are you at, what have you done. Drop us a line mate