Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Ethanol in fz6

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by lewy, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. Gday all just like to no what u all think of using ethanol in a Yamaha fz6 will it heart the motor it has a high octane level so should burn good any how just like to hear peoples opinion :grin: :) :?:
    Thanks Lewy.

  2. Yamaha don't recommend ethanol in ANY of their vehicles - might not cause any problems but I'd be wary about going against manufacturer recomendations. Also worth remembering that although ethanol has a high octane - it also has a low energy content. So you need to burn more to produce the same hp.
  3. Simple answer is to never use a fuel with ethanol in it unless you absolutly have to. It is put in to 'cheapen' the fuel, most engines are not designed to handle it and alot of manufacturers don't cover warrenties if you do use it.
  4. None of the alcohol fuels have a higher octane level per volume than petrol.
    They also have a much lower calorific content per volume, which is why drag racers need to dump twice as much down teh engine to achieve the same results.

    Regards, Andrew.
  5. I accidentally filled the Spada with E10, and it ran fine but the fuel economy suffered. I'd have to do it again to confirm that, but I can't see a point of making it a habit if you're going to use more fuel. Remember too that ethanol fuel is something that has to be grown and produced, not just tapped and refined, so the environmental damage is not much better, if at all.
  6. Sorry bloke, but they do have a higher octane rating or ONR, or Octane Number Rating. (octane level per volume??), straight ethanol is about 113 ONR, petrol as sold in Oz is 91 to 98. LPG as a fuel has similar issues. Maybe one of the reasons some of the independents sell their E10 as Premium, as Ethanol is an octane booster. Why not kill two stones with one bird, a bugger when you don't want ethanol, mainly due to the corrosive effect on metal fuel system components, and Yamaha saying "don't do it"

    You're right in saying they have less calorific value, hence the poorer mileage per litre, however the higher octane allows you to run higher comp ratios, or even forced induction at higher boost before detonation occurs. Alcohol fueled drag cars lose less to the higher calorific content of petrol by doing just that.

    The key to running ethanol, and LPG to best effect is to build and tune engines specifically for that fuel. In the case of LPG, that normally means "Liquid Phase Injection", nut "spud rings" or mixers at the throttle body, Higher comp ratios and/or higher boost, added to combustion chamber design, and valve/ignition timing setups designed for the fuel.
  7. Also Shell (and possibly some of the other major brands) are now selling ethanol blended fuels at some servos with an octane rating of 100 - higher than any non-ethanol blended fuel (ignoring avgas ;)). As Iffracem points out this can easily offset the slightly lower calorific value especially with grey-import Japanese turbos that were specifically designed to run on 100RON fuel.
  8. Ethanol is to be avoided.

    It raises octane but there is more to it than this: octane is basically the 'flammability' or volatility of the fuel. More is good. But ethanol blend fuel contains less energy than regular fuel: you have to burn more to get the same amount of 'work' out of it. An analogy: throwing lots of crumpled newspaper on a fire compared to throwing on a log.

    Ethanol allows the fuel to hold more water in solution, and in the long term this can promote rust in fuel tanks and elsewhere. It is also damaging to some types of rubber: when you read of an 'ethanol compatible' vehicle it's usually the rubber bits of the fuel system that are changed: on bikes these parts are expensive.

    A 10% ethanol blend is quite mild but these are the issues to consider.

    My knowledge comes from having trawled over various CSIRO tests a few years ago.
  9.  Top
  10. Octane rating isn't a measure of the flammability of fuel, the measure of a fuels ability to resist "Detonation". The higher the Octane rating, the better the fuels ability to burn in a controlled way, and not act like an explosion. In the worst scenario, a low octane fuel can spontaneously combust under the heat of compression (like a diesel does, but diesel is supposed, petrol isn't)

    Tetra Ethyl Lead used to be added to petrol to increase the "Octane Rating", (the old super), it didn't change the "flammability" of the petrol, just it's resistance to detonation.

    Volatility is the measure of a chemicals ability to turn into a vapour.
  11. Hey there, don't streess to much about running the odd tank of ethanol containing fuel. 1 tank here and there will not likely kill your bike.

    Dont store your bike with e-10 in the tank as it has been known to do damage over long periods of time(not km).

    I have a mate who has a leaky filler cap seal on his zx2, and he finds that after a period of rain he gets typical water in fuel symptoms. He specifically runs e-10 fuel and finds this keeps it running smooth. but thats another story.
  12. I;ve run Ethanol in 3 of my cars (VK Calais 5L, Toyota Soarer, and current Subaru Liberty). None of these cars expereience any issues running ethanol fuel. I've filled the across up twice since I've had it with ethanol and had no issues so far...infact, it started better since i've done it.
  13. It can damage or perish rubber components e.g. needle valves and diaphgram valves which could lead to major engine damage. e.g. a leak in a fuel needle and a fuel tap might only allow a tiny drip of extra fuel through but if that fuel builds up in the wrong spot you could be rebuilding the engine (crank, conrod, piston etc) due to hydraulic lock. DAMHIK.

    It also has an affinity for water, which can clean the water out of your tank or it can absorb water from the air and hold it against the metal parts of your fuel system causing corrosion.

    In other words, don't stress if you put it in and use it up once or twice. I wouldnt use it regularly or store the bike with it in.
  14. I too would say avoid it. None of the big 4 Jap manufacturers recommend using it, and a couple specifically say NOT to.