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Enforced by the Lollipop men

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by Ktulu, Nov 21, 2006.

  1. Was driving along Pennant Hills Rd the other night [in the Hilux], where they are doing road works. Of course the special 'go slow so you don't kill everyone who isn't in their hole, or in a back-hoe doing their job' speed limit of 40 was applying.

    I'm probably doing 40 or 50-something, and the part of the road I'm driving on is pretty clear - anyway, the dude holding a "SLOW" sign [yeah mate, I know... you don't look like the brightest bulb on the christmas tree, why advertise?] waves his red flickering light-sabre at me in this fast chopping motion to say "slow down".

    I tap the brakes to calm him down, and then bugger off up the road, past all the "Speed limits are enforceable, you ****ing little prick" signs.

    Has anyone here been booked in one of these zones?

    With an election coming up there are road works bloody EVERYWHERE around western Sydney [and they are annoying as hell].

    Even the F3 is getting closed off so the RTA can rake pretty parallel lines in the dirt on the top of the cliffs by the road [ok, they are removing rocks that could fall... I know].
    We were riding the bikes back from Old Pac Hwy down the F3 and had to wait for nearly 10 minutes while they had the WHOLE freeway blocked off :eek:
    I was thinking - "Could we just fang through? We're on the bikes - we can get through the right gaps etc. What could they do to stop us?"

    But we just waited, 'cause we don't have that level of communication in hand signals.

    OK bonus story:

    Riding down James Ruse Dr earlier this year when they did the resurface upgrade, they had lollipop men with slow signs etc.
    I rode up afterwards, but LPCIII and Donkey saw it happen - a BMW or something was driving through too quickly and ignoring the workers, so a worker kicked the car.
    The car stops and angry driver + passenger get out to inspect damage and punch the worker who kicked the car.

    Road worker vs 2 cagers brawl ensues. Guys in steelc-caps are runing to the scene as the 2 guys realise this won't end well for them, hop in the car and speed away.

    I guess that's one way of enforcing the work limits.
  2. My father-in-law was borrowing my other half's car and earned a speeding ticket that way. It was on a Saturday afternoon, there were no "men working" in sight, and the supposed speed limit was 60 km/h, down from 110 km/h. The highway was clear and in good repair.

    He was getting passed by quite a few cars going 110, so he decided to speed up. My other half got the ticket a few weeks later - something like 35 km/h over... This was before the days of points for fixed speed cameras, so she didn't sign a statutory declaration to blame her dad.
  3. I know in Victoria you can be booked. The road work speed limits are enforced pretty vigilantly around here.
  4. Yup as above... i can promise you that esp on the freeway you better slow down for roadwork speed limits cos the TMU DO enforce it... and if you're doing 100 still in a 60 zone there goes your licence... and it happened to a lot of people when they were doing work just after Tooronga rd exit citybound... amongst other places.
  5. wow ktlulu for a second there a thought you were this wank that i saw get out of his hilux the other night.

    i was riding the push bike home from work at 10pm and a light sabre dude flashed a hilux and called him a moron blah blah, so the hilux almost runs me over when he does a quick pull over maneuveur into a driveway( i was riding on the grass , canterbury rd bayswater ) and this guy in a business suit gets out and starts asking for the guys name who he works for blah blaj, they had an arguement "your breaking the law mate" la de da and the business suit guy just walked back to his car pissed off, i stopped and watched :D
  6. I know roadwork speed limits are a pain but even road workers have a right to go home each night and hug their kids like the rest of us and not be injured by people hitting them.

    That, I believe, is the important thing here.
  7. +1 to that

    A year or 2 ago, a local road works guy was run over by a speeding motorist. Got up in the morning, said goodbye to his wife and family, left to do an honest days work, never came home. :(

    Always sticks in my mind when I see roadwork speed limits.

    Everyone has a right to a safe work enviroment.
  8. Absolutely.

    ...but I also expect people who are controlling and directing thousands of dollars worth of motor vehicles, with people travelling inside, and who are contributing to tonnes of pollution every extra minute they are on the road - to do their job properly.

    The other day at the Fitzwilliam|Old Windosr Rd intersection [where there are 2 right-turn-lanes and 1 left-turn-lane for a LOT of traffic] they had only a SINGLE lane open, despite there being no work on/near the the end of the other 2 lanes.
    Even a 1 or 2 car-length allowance in an extra lane would have let a few cars wanting to turn left get around someone trying to turn right, and vice-versa.
    Instead we sat for a change of lights for every 2nd car that wanted to turn a different direction.


    Not to mention when road-workers just leave signs up after the work is finished.
    I can respect their expectation to work in a safe environment etc.... but 'boy who cried wolf' anyone?

    And cosi - no, wasn't me :) but I was VERY close to driving over some witches hats with mine that day^
  9. Yeah - I agree with Ktulu on this one. I don't mind slowing down when workers are around, and something is actually happening. I have an hour long drive home, a fair few kms of which are along a 100km/hr rural road, and they had roadworks on a long section of it for about 8 months. But whilst they may only be working on a small section (say 0.5km), they had the speed reduced to 60 or 40 for about 10kms! And at night, when everyone had gone home, and the road was perfectly serviceable, the 40km signs were still out. When they do this, it is no wonder that people get fed up and just ignore all roadwork signs completely.

    And after a 1 month spell with no roadworks, they are now at it again on another section - and it will be another 6 months before they finish :(

    Ahhhhhh! That's better. Been wanting to have a moan about that for ages now :)
  10. Totally agree Ktulu.

    Hey Helen,

    You may remember not so long ago the very issue you refer to was brought to court.

    The case was some guy who was driving down the freeway (through all those painful works), the temporary roadworks sign said 60km/hr. He slowed down to 60 but after a few k's he realised there were no workers around and all the works appeared to be finished. So he sped back up to 80 or 100 or whatever. Murphy (not his real name) the cop stopped this guy and gave him a fine. The man pleaded his case but the cop took no notice.

    Anyway, the guy thought it was most unfair so took the matter to court. The judge ruled that the road workers had an obligation to remove the slower limit signs as soon as practicable once the work was completed. The mans fine was struck off and all was good. Media got hold of the case and gave it a half second mention before reverting to the normal speed kills babble.
  11. There was a famous case about ten years ago, on the Western Highway (Vic) near Bacchus Marsh, where the cops (locally notorious, BTW) got the local council (or a contractor, can't remember) to put roadwork speed limits out on the highway.
    They then sat in the bushes and reaped a huge harvest of fines and points. A couple of weeks later the speed limit signs were removed with NO work ever having been done. When it was raised in the local media, authorities claimed it was because they had run out of money and decided not to go ahead with the work!
  12. Not nearly enough.

    Not only for the workers' sake, but for the sake of anyone who actually complies with the speed limit too.

    I'm sick and tired of slowing down to 80 through the roadworks on the M1 every day only to have cars and trucks screaming past me at 100.

    Hell, now that they've closed down a lane and begun working on the road itself the speed limit has dropped to 60kph. People still come up behind me at ludicrous speeds despite the presence of workers and machinery on the road itself, changing lanes at the last minute and screaming past.

    I say, bring on the roadworks-speed-limit enforcement. I haven't seen a single speed trap in that section of roadworks in the three months it's been there, and I'm sick of placing myself at risk of being rear-ended by looking out for my coworkers past, present and future.
  13. Let's not allow those annoying roadworks that are designed to improve roads hold up Ktulu because he is just too important to wait. You need to wake up and smell the shit you are shoveling. How about thinking about someone/something other than yourself for a change. There is an argument against temporary speed limits not being removed when they should be but to have a whinge about speed limits in live roadworks with blokes working is just inconsiderate and immature.

    And you just showed yourself up by having a go at the bloke on the sign. It isn't his fault, choice or responsibility what the speed limit sign is. He is just trying to do his job and ensure the safety of his workmates. And you shouldn't assue they are stupid. My flying instructor did stop/slow sign work on roadworks to make ends meet because he got paid so poorly in General Aviation. He was no slouch mentally. I'm sure that if he had to die on the job he would rather do it in a plane than getting run over by some impatient f^&*wit.
  14. Definately, and even if there isn't a speed camera or radar gun the road crew themselves can and often will make a note of the rego number of anyone speeding and report it to the cops. I know they certainly don't like people putting their lives at risk by not slowing down and the cops are usually more than willing to issue a speeding fine or even a careless/dangerous driving charge based on their complaints.
  15. For starters, if you don't take the tone of most of my posts with a grain of salt, then you'll probably get offended somewhere along the line ;)

    But on the flip-side - yes, road works have made me impatient on the roads lately: because there are so MANY of them around, and it's because there is an election coming up: NOT because my lovely local government cares for me so much and no expense is too great to look after the roads their rate-payers travel on.

    The point of my story was that this guy waving a torch at me is the closest I've seen to enforcement of road-work speed limits. Never have I seen someone pulled over by the police, or a radar set up. Ever.
    So is this guy waving a light around supposed to put the fear o' tha law into me?

    gegvasco - as a motorcyclist; I generally assume EVERYONE I don't know [particularly on the road] is stupid until they prove otherwise. It's kept me alive.
    I've met some very intelligent labourers, I've also met some not-so-bright ones.
    I know a guy who has a Masters Degree with Honours in English Literature and he chooses to drive an ice-cream truck for a living, simply because it's what he wants to do.
    Of course I was making a blatant assumption about this guy. Was it not obvious enough being that my only evidence was that he held a sign saying "SLOW" ?

    Please switch all flamethrower settings from "FULL BLAST" to "Possible sarcasm/irony".

    ...may have to make that my new sig actually. Yeah. Could use the change, I reckon.
  16. (quotes from Ktulu omitted)
    It's pretty simple mate. Have a re-read of what you've written just before posting it and ask yourself if it makes you point. It may be the way you try to get your point across that lends itself to criticism but this is an electronic medium, not face-to-face contact. If you take a shot at someone(blokes on stop/slow signs), that is how we are going to read it unless you put an emoticon next to it. I couldn't see anywhere in your original post where you in the slightest inferred that your "point" was that only having the bloke on the sign is a piss poor excuse for law enforcement. In fact, based on the tone of most of your other posts(eg. the one about having a bike knocked over by a car), and what you wrote in this one, I know you meant it exactly the way it came out the first time. That is why I had a go back.

    I'm guessing that you also used to pick on the fat kid at school.
  17. Come on guys, moderation in all things.

    Ktulu is a hothead :wink: and we all know it, but he does bring up some good points, as does Helent.

    All roadworkers deserve a safe work environment, as do all other workers. So we should obey roadworks speed signs. But when there are no road works, and haven't been for some time, why do the speed signs stay out anyway? Sometimes it is because the road condition demands it, but often this is not the issue.

    Consider the Western Ring Road in Melbourne. It had roadworks signs out for months on end, often for long sections of road, with only very short sections in work. When the work was finished, the signs stayed, day and night, for months. These speed limits were not policed, setting a bad example, not to mention confusing drivers. When can we ignore speed signs, and when should we obey? The eastern end of the ringroad still has a 60Km/h limit and signs, even though no work has been done for at least six months, from memory. The road is perfectly usable, although there are smaller shoulders at present, because the contractors have left one lane completely blocked off. The reason, I suspect, is that workers have been pulled off to other jobs, never to return, or some dispute over what is to be done, but that does not forgive leaving the roads as they are.

    I have been on many rides east of Melbourne where I have been asked to slow to 80, then 60, then 40Km/h for 5Km or longer sections of road, only to ride slowly past unatended equipment with noone in site, and not at lunch break times.

    I think contractors need to take responsibility for leaving the road in a satisfactory condition, whether overnight, or during any break in work activity.

    Oh and Ktulu, don't pick on the lollypop men (and women). I find most are good guys who respond to a nod or wave. They are just following the rules imposed, and doing their job. Find a supervisor and pick on them. Is that you Joel :?: :LOL:
  18. The light sabre that luke sky....err i mean the taffic controller was waving at you is a workcover requirement during certain hours on roads with a higher Average Annual Daily Traffic greater than 2000 Vehicles Per Lane Per Day.
    It is also a part of the Traffic Control Plan, Traffic Management Plan and Vehicle Movement Plan for the specific site.

    they are used to increase the visibility of the worker, whos job it is to SLOW you down. from your (i know it was light-hearted frustration) reaction i say it worked ;)

    Getting booked in a Roadworks Zone?
    As site supervisor, if you drive past my traffic controller failing to obey his instruction it is my job to contact the police and then the RTA and have you charged with failure to stop at a stop sign (though usually i just pull the car up and have a quick scream at them). as for speeding, believe me it happens!!!
    every time we reduce the speed limit on a given road we need to apply to the RTA for a DTR (direction to restrict) which is to be in place during specific days times and in accordance with appropriate TCPS etc.
    on my Job Item Report and those DTR's i fill in the exact times that speed restrictions were erected and removed. i have had to pass on aroun 200 copies of job item reports to the RTA for people who have been done speeding through my worksites and gone on with the old "i didnt see any signs"

    so yes, it happens.... and 70 in a 40 (not hard to do) will end your licence.

    now, as for lollipop men being slow... my dudes average 70+K/year
    they are laughing at you as you are pulled up busting to get to work for 50-60k :LOL:

    the restrictions are there for a reason, even if you cannot SEE the danger.
    you cannot see that a 14mm reseal has not met the rta guidelines for a dtr to be removed. the only way it is humanly possible is if you get out of your car, measure a square metre and count the loose particles.

    people get killed in roadworks due to frustrated road users, please dont kill me or any of my boys.
  19. Hey all,
    I am currently working in the road construction industry, linemarking

    (if you read my sig, this is a fill in job till I get back into spraypainting)
    End Edit

    I totally agree with people observing speed limits whilst construction and other works are carried out,
    I myself have told off other bike riders (and car drivers) for speeding thru our work sites,
    don’t like doing it, but they need to respect my safety,
    I don’t get paid enough to get killed at work.

    That said the rules regarding the reduction of speed limits are,
    In QLD,
    Only reduce speed limit in working hours of the road permit,
    Not removing or covering reduced speed limit signs outside permit hours, penalty exceeds $5500.
    Exception to the rule, where road surface or linemarking is not completed,
    Reduced limits apply until work is completed, and is safe for the previous speed limit to apply.

    The work sites that don’t remove the reduced limit signs outside hours,
    report them to the authority in your state,
    RTA, VicRoads, Qld Transport, etc
    they will tell you if the site has a permit to keep the reduced limit outside the working hours,
    if they don’t, the authority will get it fixed.

    As for getting police representation on a road job site,
    police are only available as long as they are not busy elsewhere,
    or if the site is in a high traffic, high speed environment.
    But is great when the police are available,
    makes for a safe working day for me,
    as their presence seems to encourage most motorists to slow down.

    So please be patient,
    The guys and girls working on roads are all doing their jobs,
  20. No One there.

    Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with the safety aspects, and try to obey the "lollipoppers" etc at all times, I have to agree with one point that several posters have made. It mades me very very angry when they leave the restrictions up and there is no work going on!

    A classic example is the SE Freeway (and yes I know what its called now) where there are huge stretches of work being done, but the signs just sit there with no workmen around!