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Emergency braking practice....

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by ~DadAgain~, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. So flushed with the newfound joy commuting on the ZZR I figured a bit of light reading wouldnt hurt so I knew some of the theory behind what I'm trying to do to improve my riding technique.

    I'd seen a review or 2 of this book so figured it was worth a download and a read (found a pdf BitTorrent listed on mininova :p ):

    So far its making sense and seems like a reasonable book - but one of the first points the author makes is that we should all practive emergency braking so we know what are limits are on our bikes. Until today I'd NEVER done an emergency brake on *my* bike - so figured it would be a smart thing to do a couple at least!....

    So I pulled out of the driveway and cruised down the road (quiet deserted residential suburbia) got to a gentle speed of 50kmh and went for it in the manner taught at Q-Ride..

    :shock: :shock: wiggled and bit but came to stop - did a couple more and got it cleaner and more controlled but probably slightly too slow to stop. First effort was obviously a tad too much back brake, subsequent efforts were a little half-assed all round - I need to have a bit more guts and pull a bit harder on the front brake I think!

    All in all a completely different feel to the bike I trained on - so anyone else out there who hasnt played with eBraking since getting off a riding school bike and getting on their own - DO IT NOW - Dont rely on the training bike experience!!

    :grin: :grin:
  2. You're right we should practice regularly.
    If we travel at 100kmh should we practice e-braking at 100kmh :?: It wouldn't be easy hey? I guess we'd have to find an appropriate safe location and build up to it in say 10kmh increments or something like that.
    For you DadAgain, the key will be to keep up the practice once you are no longer "flushed with the newfound joy" :wink:
  3. I'm sure you mean squeeze harder on the front brake. Like the trigger of a gun, squeeze don't pull. We don't want to hear how you washed out the front and dropped it while practicing.

    A real eBrake from 80 Km/h is quite different to the 25 Km/h practice done at rider training. From 160 Km/h it is a real eye opener. So yes, it is a good idea to actually practice at real speeds, regularly.
  4. Hoo boy, yeah. I've tried it a few times from those speeds out of my own curiosity, and it's nervewracking.

    There's a video on Youtube of a CBR1100XX Super Blackbird doing an emergency stop on ze autobahn from ~290kph. The nose dives, tyres snarling on the limit of grip, tail of the bike squirming in a slow, lazy fishtail... I'm pretty sure he crossed half of Europe in the time it took for the bike to go from 290kph to 100kph.
  5. Yep. One real eBrake I did was from 80 Km/h when a ute drove out in front of me at a T-intersection, and stopped across most of my lane. On a slight downhill road. :eek: :shock:

    The tail squirmed from side to side, and the rear lifted. As I hadn't got the clutch in yet, the engine stalled, since I still had rear brake on. It started again when the rear wheel came down and I let the clutch out, which I had pulled while on the front wheel alone. Lots happens in those split seconds.

    The interesting thing is, the Ducati still felt quite safe, even with all that going on. I stopped well short of the car, and tootled around the front of him.

    It's good to know you can do it, and it works. :grin:
  6. OK - terminology failure "squeeze" not "pull" - but still you knew what I meant...

    eBrake at 160kmh? gee that'd need a change of underwear... but since my riding to date hasnt exceeded 90kph (and that only very briefly) - I'll keep my breaking practice to a more manageble speed...

    Its easy enough for me to find a spot to practice at 50-60kph my road is ideal (flat, wide and deserted - particularly at 6:15am!!) - but 80kph? I'm not sure I could find too many roads nearby where I can legally do 80 AND be comfortable screeching to a halt....
  7. Dad again - what was the recommended procedure for an ebrake?

    To get an idea of the forces you'll experience in a 100km/h ebrake, just do some at about 45km/h. You'll experience the same g forces but for a shorter amount of time.
  8. back, clutch, front... (in that order in rapid succession) then slowly squeeze front...

    the trick, it seems is to be gentle on the back brake and not STAMP on it in a wide-eyed frenzy of wanting to stop!

    (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or you have any better suggestions!)
  9. :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
  10. That bad huh? :oops:
  11. I practiced mine yesterday and learnt a new thing. How it feels when the front is about to wash out :LOL:

    Some people might say I just jumped on the front without doing it properly. I'm sure I did it properly... I went out on a small ride with a friend last nite. I decided to practice a few ebrakes on a small straight peice of road. First at 50 then 60 and then 70.

    For my braking I just set up and squese slowly. I get to about 85% of my squesing power and I just come to a stop. I can squese harder but I need abit more practice.

    Then my friend said his brakes werent what it suppoded to be. Like not as much braking power as mine. His brake pads were changed 2weeks ago but it wasnt really runned in properly so I said I'll try a couple on his bike. I justed on and braked a few at about half my squesing power till the brakes feels like it has more power and connsistant braking power. So I tried a few harder ones. Tried going at 60 then squese like I've been doing and i praticed a few more I got up to about 70% squesing power and it just locked the front :shock: . I'm sure I didnt do as thing wrong as I just progessively squese not just jumped on it. Could it be that I really did hit the limit of grip on his front tyre?
  12. Yes.

    You wouldn't want the brakes to max out on a cold night, on a normal suburban road with standard tyres, would you? After all, on a warm dry day with a better road surface and maybe a better or warmer tyre you could then use more braking force, and the tyre wouldn't lock in that situation.

    I always want my brakes to be capable of producing more braking power than the road supports. Otherwise there may come a day when I am using all the braking force the brakes can supply, and it is still not enough, even though the tyre/road could handle more.
  13. Shouldnt it be Front / Back together and then Clutch in?
  14. Give the man a prize.

    HART don't even care if you stall the engine because you never pull the clutch in, arguing that it is more important that you stop, than keep the motor running. Seems fair in a true energency situation. Some will argue that you may immediately need the engine to "get outta there" if you need an eBrake in traffic, and this has merit. Which is why you should try to get the clutch in before you stall the engine. Bump starting while still braking hard isn't the best plan. :grin:
  15. DA, you might wish to review: https://netrider.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53527 "Roll off, rear, front, clutch."

    Was the procedure you used from your course or the book?

    Some further thoughts for you.

    Q: How long can you keep the bike upright when you're not rolling? If you're anything like me, then the answer is about a second or two before it starts to fall to one side.

    A bike's principal stability comes from the spinning back wheel. Stop it spinning, i.e., as in a skid, and the bike eventually "falls" to one side and that causes the rear steps out the other side. Dirt trackers and stunters get used to this dynamic and deal with it... but in a real ebrake, it could add problems! So basically, stomping on the rear is not good.

    Still... some MTO's advise that once you start a rear skidding, focus more on the front and ride the skid to the stop... They say that only because spreading your attention around will increase the stopping distance, and getting off the rear brake if your tail is out more than 15degrees could lead to a highside. I'd prefer not to get the rear skidding.

    As Roderick said, HART have their own ideas, which doesn't include pulling the clutch in - except for right at the last moment before stall. I tried it their way and it worked and improved my ebraking, but I've reverted to the system above principally because of the article in the linked thread... and coz I like my engine running!
  16. Procedure was from Q-Ride course (but now you've got me questioning the order!)

    ..practice, practice and more practice required I think!!

    Wot? - you mean we're not all supposed to be like one of those crazy pushbike riders that stand at the lights feet locked into pedal straps waivering and shaking like crazy but somehow staying upright? :shock:

    Actually I saw a young lad doing this the other day and he was so focussed on not falling over then when the lights changed he powered off and crashed into the curb ending up sat on the pavement - he was OK so I didnt feel too bad at p*ssing myself laughing!! :grin:
  17. Nah mate not “that bad†my popcorn was to show that I was excitedly watching this thread as there is often useful stuff to be learned when the cognoscenti debate the finer points of e-braking. E-braking is a favourite topic of mine and I practice weekly at up to 100kmh. Robsalvv, as always, has eloquently pointed you in the right direction. There is often controversy over “clutch-in†“clutch-outâ€. Personally, my sequence is front, rear, and clutch just before stopping; I rarely stall :wink: .

    So Rob’, are you doing it the Promocycle way now?

    I realise this bit was tongue-in-cheek, however now you’re getting back in to it, why not practice your slow riding; it’ll be dead helpful when you’re filtering. Work on taking 20 seconds to cover 10m. If you can really be arsed check out the manoeuvring master Jerry “Motorman†Palladino, http://www.ridelikeapro.com he has some good tips.
  18. Prolly more "roll off, front, rear, clutch" sometimes "roll off, front, clutch, rear", with the option reserved to kick down gears if needed. Not really a fan of rear brake being upfront of the order... which is really splitting hairs, because it all happens in no time flat.

    I get that if you keep the engine engaged ala HART method, there's less chance of locking up the rear... and this actually works well on my bike because I run a high idle - ~1500rpm, but I'd much rather just remove the risk of engine stall altogether.

    Once could be one time too many.... :-k ;)
  19. :LOL: :LOL: originally I wrote: "I never stall, and I can stop on a sixpence" but I felt I was just exposing myself unecessarily :)
  20. For what it's worth, I did an intermediate course at 'Stay Upright' recently and the procedure for Ebraking was: (in order)

    Roll off - Front brake (squeeze)
    Clutch - Rear brake
    Gear down (multiple times - tap tap tap!)
    In ready position if stopped (1st gear) or just head for exit/escape route if still moving...

    It's what was tought in the L's and P's with Stay upright too. Their reasoning is that front brake takes more speed off than rear, hence it's first.