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Eastern Creek in reverse?

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by rc36, Jul 5, 2009.

  1. Most of us have a love/hate relationship with ECIR. Basically it seems to boil down to the situation where the riders love it and spectators hate it. Unfortunately, since it is the spectators who largely determine the success of a track, ECIR has been an albatross around the neck of succeeding NSW governments since it was opened.

    Here's an interesting scenario. I have heard it suggested that ECIR was originally intended to be a clockwise circuit instead of the anti-clockwise that it is now. Now, let's consider that. Leaving aside considerations of where walls and run-off areas are presently placed (to cater for the anti-clockwise direction of racing), what would ECIR be like as a clockwise circuit?

    In order to facilitate the discussion, here's a circuit map. I'm going to name the corners as they would be if direction were reversed and put the present corner # in brackets after it.


    Leaving a (slightly) uphill starting grid, the riders would head more uphill and over the slight crest of the rise and drop into a double apex right had corner T1 & T2 (T12 & T11). Plenty of run-off here and a great place for a block-pass overtaking manoeuver.

    From here, they'd head through a slight left hand kink onto the short straight leading up to T3 (T9). This corner would now become a climbing, properly-cambered left hand hairpin. Short straight up to T4 (T8) which is a constant-radius right-hander. Between this corner and the next, T5 (T7) there is a short straight with a dip in it and a tiny kink LH just as you set up for the corner.

    T6 would be a right-hander with a little LH "flick" just as you exit. Downhill for a short straight until you reach a 90 degree right-hander (dropping) T7 (T5). Flat out back towards the pits into a long, fast left-hander T8 (T4). Slight dip in the middle of the straight behind the pits before climbing up to T9, (T3) a long, constant-radius left-hander

    From there, they would drop quickly into the hairpin right-hander, T10 (T2). This is a tricky corner as it would be off-camber with the road trying to drag you towards the outside.

    Then it would be a flat-out scream along the short straight and into a VERY fast right-hand sweeper , T11 (T1) and a frantic climb up the main straight to the start/finish line.

    I, for one, would love to see it tried. I know there are probably 4000 reasons why it will never happen, but I reckon it would be a vastly more interesting track for both riders and spectators if it could be made to happen.
  2. I reckon it could be done, quite easily.
  3. The run off at what is now T12 isn't large enough for the speeds they are doing comng into even a corner like that.

    All the access gaps in the walls overlap the wrong way allowing cars & bikes to hit the end of the wall head on.

    All the gravel traps are set up wrong for the direction the vehicles will fall off.

    The tyre barriers are also in the wrong spot.

    That said, it's all doable with $$$$. they tell me that winton is much more fun when run in the opposite direction.
  4. Winton in reverse is great, except that you run into the sweeper at full noise. highside city.
  5. Jeez....I DID say that considerations of placement of barriers, run-off areas, etc should be disregarded for the point of this exercise. :roll: :roll:
  6. Sorry rc but I tend to put my common sense & experience hat on when these questions get asked and besides it's a good idea to cover all the bases in a debate like this :wink:

    I did say it was possible with $$$$ and may well work.

    Careful design of movable gates at the openings (if anyone saw the Thunderdome in action will know what I mean) and fiddling with the gravel traps mean it could be done easily.
  7. Agreed. Cash makes everything possible. Unfortunately, with the complex continuing to hemorrhage money at an alarming rate (with the exception of WSID which seems to be doing very well, thank you) I can't see it ever happening.

    A much more likely scenario is for the track to close completely and the land to revert to industrial usage which means that at least it will be earning some money.

    Barring the consideration of Sydney thus losing another circuit, I don't think ECIR would be missed at all.
  8. For cars it would mean the track would go from 1/2 a passing oportunity to 1 & 1/2 passing opportunities.
  9. How do you ride a bike in reverse ???
  10. yeah, just tried it on V8 Supercars 2 (on PSP) in reverse ! . . . .

    . . . interesting ! :grin:
  11. Can you Youtube the results? I'd like to see that.
  12. If they redesigned new turn 12 (turn 1) you'd have an awesome slingshot onto the main straight, as it stands now I recall getting off the gas fairly late to take that turn so reversed without alteration you'd be too concerned for clipping the grandstand.

    It's an interesting idea for sure, imagine the power slides on the now left-handed uphill hairpin ! Not to mention coming off the top right hander into the dip for another tight right.
  13. I don't have the foggiest idea of what Eastern creek looks like cos i don't watch cars, although with oneHD in existence I'll be watching the next round of ASBK with interest.

    Having said that, your description of a reverse lap makes it's sound like an interesting circuit. Couple of questions though, can you elaborate on how reversing the direction will benefit spectator viewing?
    Has it got to do with the views or does it mean the spectators can be moved closer in?
    Also will having the pit entrance on the right pose a problem?

    As an aside without going OT, I think doing Phillip Island in reverse would be a hoot. Going over Lukey and doing the Hayshed in reverse would leave a poo stain.
  14. NOTHING will make spectating at ECIR any better. Even from the very top of the grandstand where the commentary box is, more than half of the track is obscured by Corporate Hill and other natural barriers.

    When I first started commentating there I asked about how come a new track could have such lousy spectator viewing and I was told, "It was always assumed that there would be TV and big screens."

    Yeah, thanks for that. No, the idea of the reverse direction was more rider than spectator-oriented. But it WOULD make what the spectators can see of the racing more interesting, so I guess that would be a benefit.

    Your comment about pit entrance/exit is interesting, too. Thinking about it, I can't see that it would be a problem. Perhaps the entrance would need to be moved a little further along the short straight to allow riders to move out of the way, but I reckon that would be doable and it would probably be OK just as it is.

    Oran Park's pit entrance is on the right and they manage there OK.

    Good points, though.
  15. The pit entry/exit in reverse would be ok as is as it's off line and they would dive off well before entering what is now turn 1 and come on the straight up the hill past the grandstand.
  16. Oh ok I'm with ya now. I thought it may have something to do with the topography, where currently the exits of corners can be seen, but by reversing the direction they would turn into entrances and be more interesting.

    So to follow on with the hypothetical...
    If the racing becomes more interesting it will attract more viewers with it's broadcasts,
    which in turn will attract sponsorship dollars,
    which will help stem the hemorrhage of $$$, maybe even reverse it,
    which may even pay for the big screens,
    which will attract spectators to the circuit,
    and stop the thing from being a lemon.

    But in order to do it there will need to be another rather large cash injection in what will be a bit of an experiment.
  17. Pensioner speak here.....

    "Back in my day" Winton in reverse was a done thing at least once a year, and to my recollection the esses off the front straight to the back straight ( this was pre the extension for the V8's ) was for me the most awesome bit, and where I learnt about counter steering by watching an A grader by the name of Mick Cole. Especially the exit from the esses onto the back straight cause the outside edge of the track just dropped away and there was a farm style wire fence not too far from the track. On the RZ that I raced in those days exiting the water tower and then accelerating the whole way thru the sweeper, slowing only happened when you got to the ( in reverse ) first of the 2 left handers leading onto the front straight.

    Sorry off topic,,,....back to the creek..... the grandstand and the lack of run off could be a problem for the exit of the fast sweeping turn onto the staight, and the pedestrian bridge would also probably need to be moved further away from the exit of the preceeding turn. Nothing money couldn't fix, although its probably pointless with the current level of allowed use of the facility by motorcycles.
  18. Some "A" Grader, eh? One of the best riders we've produced and a gentleman to boot. I remember watching him win the Calder 2 Hour on the CBX1000. What an awesome rider he was. Presently enjoying the good life and running a very successful bike shop in Bega on the far South Coast of NSW.

    Indeed. What with the ARDC Nazis running the track and you-know-who Nazi running all the bike activity, you're spot on.
  19. Chef, The island in reverse happens. Do the superbike school one day, and you will get to do it.
  20. I remember an Eastern Creek upgrade was rumoured last year. I think it was raised here as well? Anyway I got the following picture after google search from here. The idea was to reverse direction here too and extra corners added. It's not going to happen but here it is for those that haven't seen it......