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Dropping it straight in neutral when stopping? *total noob*

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by plainfaced, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. Hi there.. Ive been thinking about getting my L's (again-after getting cleaned up a few years ago).. Just have a question about braking. Ive been reading a lot about engine braking and so forth.

    When Im in my car, a good 70% of the time im stopping at lights etc. I will just clutch in, and whack it in neutral, all the while braking until stopped...
    I will only down gears when Im clear of any traffic in front or behind of me, so I can cruise up to the lights or stop sign, easily...

    My question is. Is it necessary to use engine braking and down gear when stopping all the time - apart from emergency braking?? Or can I place it in neutral and brake accordingly with the bike running in neutral??

  2. Well considering bikes have a sequential gearbox it would be harder, but i think you should be able to pull in the clutch and click down one gear at a time to get to neutral and just coast. However if you have to accelerate for any reason you will be quite stuffed (as a car you can put it in 3rd, bike is harder).

    In the car i always gear down, no matter what.
  3. I'd agree with Meph - better to have the bike in gear and at the right revs so if necassary you can hit the throttle.

    And there's nothing worse than trying to take off from the lights and realising the bike hasn't moved into gear after being in neutral :)
  4. Ha.. of course.. Sequential gears - So you pretty much have to down gears..

    Thanks for the replies.
  5. yeah, as mentioned,

    you shouldn't be in neutral when coming to a stop, ESPECIALLY when emergency braking, before you stop you should be in first gear ready to get out of the way of whatever is coming up from behind.
  6. Ah right OK..

    So say you're braking, you're in 1st 'ready', will you have your clutch in while braking? ready to take off if need be?
  7. NO!
    and not down-gearing in your car is a BAD driving habit.
  8. ps. sorry for the basic questions..

    I should really wait for my learners test to ask the instructors the basics..

    Years ago when I did do my learners, I was fine. Passed 1st go, as i imagine most do.. Its just that I came off a few weeks after getting my L's, so im not taking things lightly.. Especially after reading this forum.. Its been a great help..

  9. when i emergency brake i gear down while im braking.. and use the engine to also help me brake if its not a massive emergency stop and ive got the time to use the clutch.

    but yes, once you've come to a stop, you should be in first gear, clutch in, right foot on the rear brake and left foot on the ground, ready to power out if you need to.
  10. Let's deal with the first statement.

    It's bad driving to whip in the clutch and coast up to the line and stop on brakes alone. Even though brakes are now better than they've ever been, you should be going down through the box, probably to second, letting the clutch out and having the engine compression assist with the slowing down process. You should only disengage the clutch when the car is nearly at a standstill.

    Then, in either a car or a bike, and especially if you are at the head of the queue, you should engage first and hold in the clutch in preparation for taking off from the intersection. This is especially important on a bike if you are the ONLY vehicle stopped, in which case you should be watching your mirrors for some numpty who's just waiting to pile into the back of someone stopped at the lights!!! With first gear selected and the clutch at the ready, you at least have half a chance of being a moving target.
  11. why ?
  12. read above, that's why ^
  13. Nope, I am sorry but I do not agree.. the gearbox is not there to assist in slowing the vehicle down, that is the brakes job.

    "going through the box" creates unnecessary wear and tear on clutch and pressure plates as well as the gears and bearings...

    brake pads and discs are a lot cheaper and easier to replace than clutches and gearboxes.

    new drivers are taught to slow the vehicle down without using the gearbox..
    IF however you intend to use your gearbox - "rev-matching" will go a long way to increasing the life span of the clutch... as with "blipping" the throttle on a bike
  14. I notice you haven't posted your age :roll:.

    "New" drivers are also the most represented in accidents, so that's no testimonial.

    "New" drivers are also in the vast majority driving automatics, which, funnily enough, drop down through the gears while you are using up your cheap brake pads and discs.

    Sorry, but what you say is simply wrong and ignorant.
  15. this frightens the living shit outta me, if people are actually being taught to clutch-in and brake to a stop, rather than gearing down. it is dangerous, not only for you, but all road users around you.
    i dont believe anybody would be taught to use brakes only, unless of course you are driving an auto.
    do yourself a favour and learn to drive ;)
  16. WTF has age got to do with correct driving technique ??

    I'm 31 if it makes a difference to you though..

    New drivers they crash due to lack of experience, not incorrect braking technique..

    as for automatics.. they don't actually engage the gear while coasting or braking though.. like a manual driver selecting the gear without releasing the clutch..

    paste this into Google and see what it comes up with... "slowing a vehicle down through the gearbox" - you will note that most links including those to R.T.A. type organisations recommend NOT using the gearbox to slow a vehicle down..
  17. :roll: :roll:

    - 3 advanced driver courses
    - heavy ridgid and articulated licences
    - professional driving permit for paying customers..

    I'm pretty sure I know how to drive.. as does the Government..

    perhaps you guys need to do refresher drivers licence courses or something.. you may be gun bike riders but you don't appear to have any knowledge of what is being taught to all drivers as correct technique in slowing a vehicle
  18. :rofl:

    Your search - "slowing a vehicle down through the gearbox" - did not match any documents.


    * Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
    * Try different keywords.
    * Try more general keywords.

    you are simply wrong, and full of shit.
  19. who me?
    nah, wouldnt know anything.
    i average 115000kms a year, and am the boss of a crew containing 19 trucks.
    so i agree, i wouldnt know a thing...
  20. taken from here - http://www.middledural.com/html/driver_rules.html

    Slowing and stopping.

    When slowing or stopping a heavy vehicle it is best to use your brakes only (except when driving down a very steep hill). Shifting down through the gears as you slow down is not recommended because: it adds to your work load.if an emergency occurs during a downshift, you may be caught unprepared with your foot off the brake and your vehicle out of gear repeated brake applications between downshifts waste compressed air and wear out the brakes,downshifts waste fuel and increase clutch, gear box and engine wear, in residential areas, unnecessary downshifting causes extra noise and pollution (see Noise pollution and Smoke from engines)never drive out of gear.

    taken from the Driver Training Academics of Australia - here http://linux.gatewaybbs.com.au/~dta/hendon.html

    Hendon System
    The History Of The �Hendon System Of Vehicle Control�

    Down through the History of driving there have been two main styles of driving. The first grew out of the �T� model Ford, which was the worlds first popular car. Henry Ford set out to make an affordable car for the masses. The �T� model or �Tin Lizzie� as it was popularly known had a two-speed transmission, which was shifted by foot pedals. The left pedal (where the clutch is on a modern vehicle) was held down for low gear and released for high gear. The right pedal was the brake and is un changed in a modern vehicle. There was an extra pedal in the middle that was held down for reverse. A small �Button� pedal beneath the reverse pedal was the accelerator (so that has been moved to the right since the mid 1920s).

    The brakes wore out quickly because of the material that was used in them, so the 'old timers' learned to stop the �T� with minimum use of the brakes. They would first lightly press the brake with their right foot and hold down the left pedal to engage low, then using their left foot they pressed their toe to hold down the reverse pedal and with their heel the would press the accelerator to rev the engine. (This is where the term: "Heel & Toe" first came from. It is also where the expression "When in doubt, both feet out" came from). When the vehicle stopped they had to pull on the handbrake quickly to stop the vehicle going backwards. The handbrake had the dual purpose of also shifting the gear to neutral.

    This style became locked in the psyche and was handed down through generations. It was backed up by the saying "I use my gears to save my brakes".

    The second style happened in England. In the early days of motoring the British Government enacted a strange law that any motor vehicle being driven on a public road had to be preceded by a person waving a red flag by day or a red lantern by night. This meant of course that horses were faster, and the motor vehicle industry didn�t develop in Britain until the law was repealed. In the early thirties very few British people had a vehicle and the average police officer had little or no driving experience. On the job police driver training was rudimentary. Not surprising, the British police were having serious vehicle crashes. In 1936 a parliamentary inquiry, headed by Lord Cottenham, was set up. Lord Cottenham called for evidence from all over the world and after several months his team came up with a system of driving which was called the �Hendon System� after the London Suburb where the police college is situated where the inquiry was held.

    This Hendon System contained two unique features, which cut across popular driving practice of the time. First was a planning step where the driver visualized the vehicle�s intended path, speed and an area where the gear would be shifted. During training this was affirmed by the student saying �Course�. Secondly, Lord Cottenham�s committee said it made no sense to use the gears instead of the brakes to slow the vehicle down. Firstly set the vehicle at the right speed with brakes, and then shift directly to the appropriate gear with one shift.

    If you were able to talk to the old �Tin Lizzie� drivers they would say, �I change my gears to save my brakes�. If you see a driver shifting down through the gears while braking today, they still say, �I change my gears to save my brakes�. It doesn�t make sense today. The top speed of the �Tin Lizzie� was about forty-eight kilometres per hour. The stress on the drive train of a modern vehicle when shifting with the brakes on is amazing. Brake pads are a fraction of the cost of clutch, gearbox, trans-axle or differential.

    The main problem is not the vehicle stress but the driver�s reaction. Over the years all of the research suggests that Lord Cottenham was right.

    Drivers who shift down through their gears during braking are more likely to react badly when faced with a sudden emergency than those who train their mind to use brakes and gears separately. (See Five Great Driving Habits).

    Those are just 2 of the links that came up on my Google search..
    but I must still be wrong.. and so must they.. because those 2 articled weren't written by intraweb forum moderators..