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N/A | National Drivers to learn how to ride?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by hornet, Nov 25, 2014.

    • Winner Winner x 1
  1. Well...glory be.......

    a politician that actually said something sensible.....

    Wonders will never cease!
  2. my sentiments exactly, I had to pinch myself, and check that it wasn't April Fools Day!!
  3. I did check the date myself.
  4. great. more taxes
  5. Been saying this for years. Pity it will never happen....
  6. I think it is a pretty stupid idea really.

    For a learner driver they have their license and testing fee's in addition to a ridiculous number of hours driving before they can transition to Provisional drivers, which usually means a lot of money outlaid on paid tuition... and then to add to that further costs of doing rider training where most will have no intention of ever getting a bike or riders licence.

    Further more last time i checked there aren't any trucks or cars driving recklessly around the lot where the learner rider training is performed so what would a leaner driver take away from such training? nothing? just more financial burden.

    A more sensible policy would be uniform training across all the states, more emphasis on defensive road craft and identifying hazards, and public education through advertisement which would reach a far wider audience than just new drivers e.g. a large advert on the back of a bus of a mangled bike and a body under a sheet with the caption "this is the result of a drivers negligent actions... look twice for bikes" or some such.

    I also think the rider training should place emphasis on it being better to be alive, than "to be in the right"

    this is not to say that questions about bikes in the knowledge test, and a module about being "bike aware" added to driving instruction and the road users hand book if it's not already in there.
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  7. I'm not convinced that car drivers would learn any more from this experience than completing a defensive drivers course. Probably a whole lot less but they would learn enough to think they can ride their mates bike. Hazard perception is not a uniquely motorcycle thing and it doesn't develop in a 1 day course. But it may show a number of people that it isn't that scary and encourage more riders.
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  8. #9 robsalvv, Nov 25, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
    I largely agree with you iClint, except for one aspect.

    so what would a leaner driver take away from such training? nothing?

    I think they'd take away a lot, especially the exposed nature of riding. They won't get a sense of their fragility by playing in traffic, but with the right emphasis, they could be able to put themselves in the rider's shoes.

    I'm not against the idea of MC licenses for all, but I'm 100% behind the sentiment. I just don't think the proposal is practical, but ANY steps towards increasing awareness of bikes in the driver license and testing syllabus has my full support.

    edit:minor edit for clarity
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  9. I think if you polled drivers the overwhelming majority of them have a full understanding of the perils of riding due to the exposed nature... the issue is that something changes in their brain the moment they hop inside their car, not just in some kind of anti bike thing but a general lack of respect and caution for all road users.

    Just yesterday I had a guy and his girl on a bike attempt to stop me from merging by speeding up to close the gap i intended to merge into, now I'm not about to fcuk anyones life but when someone goes out of their way to wrong me my brain switches into fcuk you mode.

    Now why speed up to close the gap? if i get in front of you I perhaps have delayed you by a fraction of a second! your on a bike simply filter pass me at the next set of lights. this scenario isn't limited to just bikes but my point is the rider who has completed there rider training and has at least a few years of riding up his sleeve deliberately put himself and his pillion into harms way. So if in this case this particular rider doesn't have an understanding of his own vulnerability on the road after years of riding, it seems hard to believe someone is going to take much away from a few hours on a 125cc in a car park.

    While the above situation is anecdotal and not indicative of all riders, I see many riders also putting themselves in harms way every day. I don't just commute to work i tend to be driving for anywhere from 6-8 hours a day all across sydney

    my point is if a portion of riders don't get it, why would learner drivers be any different?
  10. They don't have a full understanding of the perils of riding. How can they if they have never ridden? They have their perception about what it's like. They don't KNOW. Over 92% of license holders in Victoria do not have a MC endorsement - presumably it's about the same throughout Oz, so the vast majority of drivers have NFI about bikes full stop, but have plenty of opinion.

    I've spoken to many non riders and have had their total ignorance confirmed time and time again.

    This is not worth sawing sawdust over mate. If you are convinced of your view, then agree to disagree.

    That's a self righteous view overtaking a pragmatic one. I've seen it in my GF several times and told her via helmet comms to back the f'k down. No point being right and dead.


    You're forgetting the 100hour rule, aka that phenomenon where intermediate skilled/expereinced riders experience a peak in incidents due to overconfidence/underestimation of risks/over estimation of skills.

    From my experience of Victorian politicians and agency staff who went and got their L's to "understand" riding better, I can tell you that they absolutely shat their dacks and started proposing all sorts of countermeasures to save ourselves from ourselves. That's where the drive for Victoria's hi Viz and mandatory boots come from. So I suspect the idea of new drivers having some bike time will work a treat.

    Driver's don't have the opportunity to become complacent on a bike. That's why it would work.
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  11. If I had my way everyone would have to spend 5 years on a bike before they could qualify for a car licence AND be required to be re-tested every five years for both.
    I have no idea if that would be practical or realistic, but I'd still like to see it.
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  12. From my sample of one I can say quite categorically say that putting a non rider on the back of a motorcycle as a pillion for just 45 minutes in traffic, even the relatively light traffic we have in sunny downtown Wagga, has a dramatic effect on their perception and ability to see motorcycles.
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  13. Last time I did that I took them up Mt Victoria Pass in heavy traffic ... I may have been a little irresponsible as regards the speed at which we travelled also. She bought her own bike the day after.
  14. Practically it'd be pretty hard given the tyranny of distance for those outside of metropolitan areas. And frankly with the lack of public transport in many outer suburbs having a car is most definitely a right.

    Having said that, I don't think it's a bad idea. But, the test shouldn't be whether you can parallel park, or start the car in particular order. Rather the test should be about vehicle control, practical hazard awareness (not a computer screen).

    Why? Because I would say that even the worst drivers could pass the basic learners practical test if their licence was on the line. Things like being taught parallel parking were as useful to me as doing Yr11 physics - did the test, never used it since. In fact when I first moved to NSW I was astonished by the number of towns that required you to reverse in to angle parking spots.
  15. I would disagree about it being a "right". It's most definitely a necessity to have some form of personal transport, but if someone is patently incapable of operating a car with an acceptable degree of competence they should have not be given the privilege of a licence regardless of who they are or where they live.
    I agree regarding the content of the test, though being able to park in each of the common forms, and safely pull back into traffic, is a skill sorely lacking in many.

    We have reverse and forward angle parking here as well as parallel depending on the area. The number of times I have nearly been killed by people reversing out of a nose-in parking spot (or crossing the road to nose into a reverse spot) with not even the slightest pretence of looking has gone beyond my care to count, regardless of if I was driving the car, a truck, or on a bike. So many seem to just get in, start up, slam it in reverse and to hell with other traffic. When forced to use this method myself I find I simply cannot see traffic in order to safely pull out and have had to ask my wife to spot for me. When travelling alone I simply have to inch out and hope like hell there's a gap. Yes, I do fully turn in my seat and look. At least with reverse angle parking people can see what you're doing when you park and you can see what's coming when you pull out. Even if it can inconvenience other traffic when you do park it's infinitely safer. Good luck parking a bike nose-in and getting it back out on any high cambered roads, too.
  16. How I park the bike depends on which way is easier. Generally I'll point the nose of the bike up the slope.
  17. I'll do that if at all possible as well, regardless of the parking signs. It's too damn hard to back a tall bike up a slope.
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  18. Can I just put my 2c worth in....when my mother found out I got a bike and license she told me that now that I ride she will take more notice of motorbikes??? Go figure. Said what did you do before??? Ignore them or didn't see them? She couldn't answer me. On another note I reckon both my parents should not drive a car (74 years old) and still cant drive, they never could and never will.....just my opinion.
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  19. That's actually a better idea than making them do a course around a car park. Because

    A. More jobs for riders

    B. People will see what filtering is all about, (hopefully not scare them about it though).

    C. Will encourage more riders onto bikes.