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Double Demerits is on again! (NSW, ACT and SA)

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by josh909, Sep 30, 2005.

  1. Just a reminder that it's that time of the years when yet again the powers that be have decided to embark on the public relations crusade of slowing the road toll by implementing double demerit points.

    On my way to work this morning i passed 2 x RBTs and 2 x separate HWP cars pulling people over.

    Ride safe kids :)
  2. does this apply to vic aswell?
    we don't usually have double demerit points unless it's a special holiday comming up...
  3. Monday's Labour Day for NSW,ACT and SA so shouldn't affect VIC
  4. oh yeah... i was meaning for the NSW riders.

    (title changed)
  5. Victoria doesn't have DD points, yet. Not that it'd make any difference. People in NSW are still dying at a faster rate, per capita than what they are in Victoria. Perhaps it's because the speed camera locations are known, or that NSW people have compulsory annual roadworthies or something..

    It would never have anything to do with the fact that people can't drive, would it?

    Anyway, have a good holiday weekend. By rights it should be Bathurst, but some obscure thugby match has put paid to that...
  6. i got pulled over at 1 pm at a RBT station for a breath test..they checked my licence, which they never have before when i have been pulled over in a car. i passed yay 8) ..but i did think i had to take my helmet off to do it (first time on bike in breath test) and i had to take my gloves off to fumble about for my card in my bag so it took a few minutes and there was a big line forming behind me :eek:
  7. Just drove back from Willoughby in the north of Sydney, through the harbour tunnel and down the Eastern Distributor, no-one seems to give a hoot, blokes in utes doing 30 over the limit, can't wait to get home where it's safe!
  8. Let them wait. 8)
  9. The first week I had my bike and L plates on I got RBT'd twice! Hadn't been RBT'd for about 5 years before that. You can imagine how that got me thinking. And I also had a queue behind me because of the glove and helmet thing. But what are they going to do? Honk and road rage me in front of 10 cops.

    The double demerit thing is so appaling. It is totally indiscriminate despite being designed to catch people speeding on the highways on holidays over the long weekend. If you get pinged for 5 k's over in a suburban street on your way to work or even something minor on the way to the local shop like not coming to a full and complete stop at a stop sign(read foot down for bikes), you get double demerits. How is this related to stopping people tearing along the Pacific Highway at 140?

    If anything, it proves one thing. The normal (single) demerit point system is flawed. If they need to implement a new system in peak periods then doesn't that indicate the normal system is ineffective?
  10. Double demerit points was introduced as an alternative to the lifting of fines (which is perceived as revenue raising).
    Whether or not you are booked for breaking the law in the suburbs or in the country, you are still breaking the law. Whether or not you lose three points or six, or none, is entirely in your hands.

    Having said that, I had a stupid dream last night that I got booked for doing some insane speed out in the country somewhere!!! Very embarrassed, and relieved to wake up!
  11. I agree. If you break the law, it is your own fault. Do the crime, pay the fine. I haven't been booked for 10 years - for anything. I stick religiously to the road rules and drive/ride very defensively. My point is why is a crime committed this Sunday any different to a crime commited this Tuesday? If there is a law in place that says this crime warrants $XXX fine and X points then that should stand. If they want to target long weekend traffic because there is a traditionally higher number of accidents, then target the long weekend traffic, not all road users with an arbitrary penalty that is in contravention of the existing, and supposedly researched and appropriate, penalties attributed to a particular crime. Imagine if they tried that with murders(which serious speeding can be akin to).

    It is bloodyminded and is along the same lines as putting speed cameras in the Cross City Tunnel before it has even opened. Cameras are meant to target black spots so why is there a black spot in a brand new road? It is arbitrary enforcement in a flawed system.
  12. Hornet: I agree that we are completely responsible for our own actions, but we also have a right to expect the punishment for law breaking to be fair and reasonable. If x is deemed to be the fair punishment for breaking law y, then I don't see why the punishment should be 2x because it's a holiday.

    If the punishment for criminal offences doubled on particular days of the year, people would see it as outrageous. That people mostly accept double demerit points on holidays is significant, I think it reflects the public view that our road laws and punishments are somewhat arbitrary to begin with.

  13. lol, looks like we said basically the same thing gegvasco ;)
  14. It could be because that holiday typically has significantly higher traffic levels than most days. More cars on the road means more innocent people placed at risk by one irresponsible driver. Rather than fit the particular act, the punishment may be designed to fit the risk it could pose at a certain time.

    It's just a guess, it doesn't affect me anyway.
  15. Seany: If that's the case, that punishment is based on level of risk to the innocent, shouldn't the penalty for speeding at 3am be half of normal? And doubled not only on holidays but also at peak hour? However you shake it, there are holes in the logic.

    It doesn't affect me either (fellow Melbournian), it just annoys me when I can't find the logic in government actions like this.

  16. That would make sense, if that's the logic used. Unfortunately, it would be a very large and complex system if they used risk to others as a basis for penalties at all times. To some extent they do this by grading speeding offences and drink driving offences with harsher penalties the higher the level of infringment. Unfortunately, if they took into account the time of day, type of road and actual volume of traffic etc. the variables would be many for each incident, which leads to confusion and most likely would lead to the court system having to work out every ticket.

    My having a blanket rule that says this weekend the points are doubled, there is much less complexity, so everyone knows where they stand and emphasises that the particular weekend is historicaly a high toll period so extra caution may be required.

    Any logic has holes in it. The problem is, if you take out the flaws, then you end up with a complex system that many drivers might not understand. I guess they have to weigh up the equality and effectiveness with the ease of use and make a rule that compromises between them. It's not perfect but if it makes people take extra care on holiday weekends, then I guess it serves its purpose. Much better I think than raising fines which would more adversly effect lowincome earners and allow the rich to do as they please. :)
  17. Seany's said about all that I could have said. Cynical view is that it's not serious about accident prevention, but realism says that holiday road tolls have been coming down, so there must be some deterrent in it. Yes it's a variation, so why couldn't we have more, but realistically the complexity argument then kicks in.