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Don't want to start another religion bashing thread but...

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by Not4Resale, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. #1 Not4Resale, Mar 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    This really offends me...

    ]A day in the life[/URL]

    I sat and watched this absolutely mortified. I know not to tarnish everyone with the same brush but in countries that practice sharia law, this is very prevalent. I also have the misfortune of knowing a number of people who living in Australia have been subjected to this sort of thing. I hate seeing things like this because it throws out my logical argumentation. I loathe this sort of thing to such a degree that I cannot fathome a worldview that ever justifies this...

  2. ... but you're clearly going to?

    I see your point mate, but it's hardly limited to sharia law, you can see the same thing down any dark backstreet in this country. I find this comment interesting though:
    "I cannot fathome a worldview that ever justifies this... "
    Fair enough that you can't understand this, but who is to say it's a wrong view?
  3. I'm not racist but..........
  4. Anyone with common sense could + would be allowed to say it's a wrong view (to 'beat up' the lady for what happened in that video)
  5. What is prevalent in countries that practice sharia law? Have you seen it happen with your own eyes before? That video if stupid and only shows an idiot acting like a tool. If that woman is his mother then shame on him and hope he gets what he deserves in the hereafter.

    That has got nothing to do with sharia or anything else. It's just some idiot acting like a tool. If your saying you've seen this in Australia and it's happened why don't you report it to the authorities and let them deal with it then.

    The topic says don't want to start another religion bashing thread then what are you doing?

    No worldview and especially Islam justifies this. If somebody has taught you that Islam justifies this tell them they are wrong and to learn Islam more in depth. This by no way has got anything to do with Islam. Besides one morons actions doesn't reflect the majority.
  6. Gold, Lilley, pure gold!!!=D>=D>
  7. But that's because you have been conditioned to think that way, you can only say that from a westernised ideology. You are applying your ethics to another culture which ironically enough is unethical. In their perspective and culture the elevation of men above women is common sense and quite right.
  8. Is he drinking alcohol? I thought that was not allowed, but that doesnt mean prohibition ever works.

    He needs a bit of vigilante justice...
  9. Alcohol is forbidden in Islam but a lot of Muslims still drink it and they also commit other sins too. Just cause something is forbidden doesn't mean people don't do it. They still do it regardless of what religion they are. Religious rulings are there for guidance and it is up to the individual to follow it or not.

    There is something called free will which everyone has and everyone chooses what they do whether good or bad irrespective of what religion they are.

    Alcohol is also banned in Christianity & Judaism too and so are drugs but people still do it.
  10. haha, ahhh nup, sorry. Not sure about Judaism but I doubt it.

    You might be confusing that with drunkenness?
  11. Throughout most Christian countries in history, alcohol was probably safer than the general water supply.....
  12. Well, you're very wrong with your assumption there. I was not conditioned at all from any ideology, Western or Eastern. When I was young, my parents gave me many dozens of books to read regarding various religions, cultures, ideologies etc for the past 30 odd years as they sell second hand books, amongst other items for about 60 years, they have a huge repository of stuff for me to use/read/examine so I could make up my own mind in the 'upbringing' I wanted to have, be it either have religious or no religious input (for the record, I chose back then, about age 6-7 I think from memory?, I would have liked to been buddhist, with elements of Taoism is what I found to be closest to the way I felt with regards to life, and morals) Also I wished to have been Eastern/Japanese for about 20 years (I've stated on here before the irezumi I've had for ~20 years stems from the wishing I was born Japanese. Also that lots/most Western ideology stuff appals me), I'd say you are right off the mark there.

    With that said, it's not really about the regards to the elevation of men above women (from it being good or bad) in this situation, it's the hurting/bashing/stamping on someone's head is what I think cannot be said to be "right".But if you think it's ok or think anyone can think it's ok to hurt/bash/stamp on someone's head, with little or not provocation (well, at all in MY opinion), I think we have a huge clash of morals here. I understand the women "cannot be equal to men" but to possibly kill or injure/brain damage (for life?) someone over that 'little' interruption to me just can't be "ok", be it whether she interrupted the guy doing something religious or even sining songs to his friend, there is no background info on this far as I could tell, so I can only take it on face value as with everyone else who doesn't know exactly the background story of this scene.

    Anyway, that's my quick wrap up of a reply, we're due to head off at 4PM for a friends bday and its 4:02. Must go! I'm sorry if I haven't conveyed much/all of my thoughts with regards to this, it's just that I'm in a quick rush and I can't rush myself these days with my injury
  13. Some fundamentalists might use this:

    "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
    [Proverbs 20:1]
  14. #14 Not4Resale, Mar 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    I know what this implies however, this is what I was alluding to...

    ]Ladies of Islam[/URL]

    Domestic violence is a global problem but in certain regions there is no way to protect women from it. I wanted to show this to highlight the problem of women in certain Islamic countries being subjected to this kind of farce and having no authorities to go to due to the constraints of religious law. I was hoping that this could be a constructive discussion and not a bashing thread but I have the forsight to know that emotive arguments come from videos like this.

    I have read quite a few ethnography's and what I have derived from them is this re-occuring point that in certain regions women suffer greatly without a voice. Thats what gets to me the most about this subject.
  15. We did and both girls finally got divorces and escaped the abusive relationships. In both cases the guys believed that it was their right to do.

    I'm sorry to break it to you Resmen but domestic abuse is condoned by Islam. It does say that it has to be reasonable however, in practice I think it might be difficult to be reasonable in beating your wife.

    And lets not forget the clause of why the wife doesn't have the right to beat the disobedient husband....
  16. Theres an actual clause addressing abusive wives? Sure, abusive women are nothing new but its been met with chivalrous disbelief and ridicule up until a couple of decades ago.
  17. i was laughing at the article in one of the sydney papers today.

    the 2IC in the catholic church here said yoga and reiki could lead young people into evil. specifically, it might incite them to conduct a seance.

    "yeah guys, we've just finished up stretching for our yoga class, someone get the ouija board out please" :LOL:
  18. "Well, you're very wrong with your assumption there. I was not conditioned at all from any ideology, Western or Eastern"
    Fair enough, I can cope with my assumptions being wrong. As for the video, what it depicted disgusted me as well. My point was that in a secular society which believes in freedom of religion that says people can choose their own code/creed/culture/religion/whatever and we can't criticise their choice because it is what works for them and it is their worldview, saying an aspect of another culture is wrong and immoral is hypocritical. Especially if that culture is completely removed from the secular one.

    I think [it] cannot be said to be "right". But if you think it's ok ... we have a huge clash of morals here.
    I don't know much about islamic society, or if stamping on a woman's head is acceptable practise if they are out of their place. That is for their lawmakers to decide. Passing judgement on that worldview from within a society that parades religious freedom, regardless of your personal worldview is inherently "wrong", and yes there is a huge clash of morals, but that is because there is a clash in the worldviews. It's (a large) part of the reason why secular society can not believe in freedom of religious choice at all, infact the very concept is inherently contradictory.
  19. no no, that would be me spin-doctoring it because there is no such mention.

    My point was that the male's right to beat his wife is covered in text but the woman's point of view on the topic is ignored.

    My thoughts are that due to the notion of fitna (evil demon that all women have) we have things like this happening without a legal answer. The basic idea of fitna is that the female is the more powerful of the two sexes and due to this demon, a man can be made to not control himself in the presence of a woman thus the female must be kept under control so as to maintain social order. This is why wife beating to a degree and covering of women etc. is acceptable in Islam. Obviously there is a range in the degrees of how conservative and how literally people take things but I believe that this is the just of the belief.

    It still irks me alot to see things like this or hear about it happening... In any circumstance in any part of the world in any religion. The only qualm that I reserve for islam in this respect is that it justifies this sort of thing to a degree which is just enough for certain individuals to abuse the privelage. (I can't believe I just called wife beating a privelage ](*,))
  20. This is why I mentioned the emotive side of me in my OP. I don't like using emotive means to argue which is why I am maintaining my points in a logical fashion... I can already see that i've annoyed a few people already and i've been quite tame in my argumentation.

    The issue I have is that I think that as a basic human right women should be able to go to their legal authorities if they are suffering attacks from a partner. I realise however that this is the secular humanist in me talking and I'm arguing from a moral perspective however, I think that to a degree you cannot avoid putting your opinions and emotions into an argument. Of course it takes away from the validity of the argument but for purposes of moral advancement, doesn't a standard need to be set? AKA human rights opposed to non-human rights?

    This is a very subjective and tough area to discuss so i'm trying to be as open as I can in this arena.

    sorry for all these double posts, i'll start editing subsequent posts instead.