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Don't use the front brake....

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by Grey Gentry, Nov 15, 2006.

  1. This question was raise in another forum. I felt it would be responded to by those that have just been through training here.
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    I've heard this enough recently to believe it must be happening
    Are people aware of rider training schools telling students not to use the front brake except in emergencies because they may go over the handle bars and to use the back brake only.
    What actually is being said?
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    Can some of your newbies enlighten me please?



    TIA
    Ron
     
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  2. Nope,
    i was never told that.
    I was told that back brakes are only a slow speed brake and anyting else would need back and a preset and brake of front brake
     
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  3. I did my Ls through DECa at Carrum Downs 4 weeks ago and I definitely wasn't taught that.

    I was taught to use both brakes together...in general braking and in an emergency stop..and also not to use the front brake whilst turning. :) (The latter being pretty much one of the first rules of riding he taught us) :)

    As for concerns about going over the handlebars??? This wasn't a concern of my instructor - he did spend a good amount of time going over proper braking techniques (such as don't grab the berloody thing!).

    It's only been in the past few days that I've begun to use my front brake more. I'd avoided using it - not sure why - probably fear of losing balance from grabbing it too hard. Been practicing using it and the rear together at varying speeds.
     
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  4. What ^^^^ they said!


    The motorcycle instruction industry's own ridesafe video, and more recently, the TAC $50 levy DVD, show pretty clearly that front brake is the most effective brake and will pull you up the quickest in an emergency.

    :!: FFS, don't let newbs be thinkin that front brake is taboo!!!!! :!:

    Get back on that other forum and set 'em straight Grey.
     
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  5. If we are talking about a typical bike it sounds like somebody may have their wires crossed, at least I hope so.

    There is a valid argument for primarily (but not exclusively) using the back brake on some long wheelbase cruisers though, as the weight distribution is very rear biased, and the rear brakes are often more powerful than the front.

    The same can be said of scooters with an engine/swing-arm/trans-axle combination, which also puts most of the weight over the rear wheel. My scooter is typical, the front alone does bugger all, in spite of it having decent Brembo brakes.
     
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  6. I just did my QRide last week, so this is very fresh in my mind :grin: . Definitely the opposite of what I was taught!

    The instructors emphasised on many occasions that the rear brake is the 'pseudo' brake, and is really only most effective when used as a stabiliser and/or light controlling. Never is the rear brake to be used when you actually need to stop!

    The combination of front and rear brake is (as per the instruction video) the most effective for emergency braking. At QRide, we are also assessed on our skills in emergency braking, and we definitely have to use both.

    Regular/normal stopping moves is: 1. Left hand in clutch, 2. Right hand on front brake. I was never ever told to use rear brake.

    I'm interested in knowing which bike school taught to only use rear brake, as a few of my friends are interested in getting their licenses, and I will steer them away from that school!!

    -G-
     
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  7. HART taught to use front brake, same as gracebeey explained.
     
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  8. HART at Tulla teach you to use both. They even show you why including a front wheel lockup, real wheel locked up progressive front and rear breaking.
     
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  9. Ron this sound like something from the old chopper days in the USA , some of em still peresist in usingrear brake only , Only to find it doead bugger alll cept leave nice black lines to the traget they hit.
    I was taught here in Aus around 12 /15 years ago and always both brakes.
     
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  10. Excellent stuff!

    Roscoe..that is good of HART on the lockups.
     
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  11. Its not quite as simple as that. The legacy from that time is that some of the current cruisers have front brakes fitted that are so weak you must use both if you have any hope of stopping at all. With a 70-30 rear weight bias or worse, and a narrow front tyre, the front will lock before any serious energy is dissipated by even the weak brake fitted, so you must use primarily rear. Yeah I know, it shouldn't be that way, but these bikes are very very badly designed in that department. (See also my post above about larger scooters with engine/swingarm/transaxle combinations.)
     
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  12. Grey -

    Here in SA there is one small and unlikely opportunity for confusion at Ridersafe, but only if the students aren't listening properly at the very start.

    From the very first exercise, raw newbies with zero experience are told never to touch the front brake as they come in to park on the range. Keep in mind that they're coming to a stop out of a turn. The instruction, on parking on the range only, is always "clutch in, rear brake only to slow."

    Meanwhile during the rest of the course, it is reinforced dozens of times that the most effective braking method is to use both brakes.

    The "clutch in, rear brake only to slow" command initially as students come to park simply alleviates problems with students folding over the steering as they turn, should they hit the front brake, and coming to grief.

    ONLY if you weren't listening properly...and continued not to listen, could you misinterpret this as an instruction to always stay away from the front brake.


    OB
     
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  13. HART even teaches to use front (and rear) braking in a corner for the Licence/P's test. Not as part of the Test just as part of the day.
     
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  14. no front brake = ridiculously ludicrous

    if thats what is being taught, expect more off's :?
     
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  15. I did the HART Ls course in VIC about a month ago and they said nothing of the sort. They stressed the importance of using BOTH breaks, applying evenly and smoothly. They also told us what to do if we locked up the breaks and all that.

    The way it was explained was that about 80% of the braking is done on the front because that's where the bike's weight is, so the back can't do more than 20% but should still be used.

    If people are being taught not to use the front break they are going to destroy their stopping distance and not know what to do when they are in an emergency and have to jam them on.

    I seriously hope no one is teaching that sort of rubbish - they're meant to give learners the skills to stay alive on the road, not increase the risks.
     
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  16. I think someone was not paying attention at the L's course, or did not go the second day.....
    You are taught from the word go that both brakes are used to stop hard.
    Now, in the first day, you are doing low speed turns and the like, and they tell you to use rear brake in turns.
    We were lucky, we had an ex trials rider on my course, and he was showing us stuff not in the curriculum. For example, he had us going around corners and using the rear brake, to give us a feel for how rear brake tightens up the line in a turn (within reason).
    So, I think someone was napping............
    There is NO WAY you could pass the P's skills test with no front brake..........

    Regards, Andrew.
     
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  17. That's a good point... in VIC one of the manouvers for Ls is a "quick stop" where you have stop from about 25km/h in 7m - I reckon that'd be impossible without front brake.
     
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  18. the only time i use more rear then front is in the wet.... but, yeah if need to stop quickly will certainly use everything i got wet or dry!
     
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  19. What about on gravel? I recall someone saying not to use the front brake on gravel roads.
     
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  20. Don't know about that? Obviously you don't want to grab a handful of front but if it's wet I'd still prefer more front... the tyres footprint is still going to be bigger in the wet than the back is.. all you need to do is sqeeeeeze them brakes.
    My 2ยข.
     
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