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Donating (yet another 'speed fine' rant)

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by ozfz6nguy, Nov 8, 2006.

  1. Woohoo!!

    Today, after 6 odd years of riding, I join the ranks of those of us whom have donated to Steve Bracks' retirement pension fund.

    While on my way to uni a kInD and FrIeNdLy police officer pulled me over and suggested I was doing 25kph over the limit in a 70 zone. It was not my maintained speed, I had just pulled out from a side street and was accelerating to stay ahead of oncoming traffic. The NiCe, CoNsIdErAtE officer was well hidden from the view of oncoming traffic (at the bottom of a hill), perfect place to PrOtEcT tHe CoMmUnItY. Serves me right for taking an alternate route to uni for a change.


    Now before anyone says "just cop it sweet" or some such.. I intend to, I broke the law and will pay the fine. However, I will complain about the "speed kills" philosophy and the "revenue raising" tactics often employed. There are places where I believe that the speed limit is too low for the particular road, surrounding environment and conditions, conversely I also believe that there are places where the speed limit is a little high etc. I generally drive/ride accordingly. My first two years of riding were hopeless, I had 3-4 crashes (only one was directly my fault - it was my first time out on the bike and I slipped in some oil. All of the others were cars running stop signs or red lights etc). For the last 4 years I have not had any incidents, in fact I have avoided many 'blind', 'mindless' car drivers doing 'stupid' maneuvers by riding as I generally do, according to my perception of what is safe.

    Where I got booked today, the road goes under a freeway. There are three lanes each way with walls either side of the road. I was on the downhill slope of the road as it went under the freeway. There are no houses, driveways, side streets (after the one I pulled out from). I got in front of most of the traffic and got into a good lane position and was slowing down a bit to flow with the traffic when I saw the police car with its lights flashing. He had clocked me at my peak speed as I was accelerating in front of much of the traffic.

    I believe this incident to be more biased towards revenue raising then road safety as the officer had positioned himself where oncoming traffic could not see him (or be warned of his presence), where it is reasonably safe to do a few k's over the limit (as much of the other traffic was doing) and where he could easily pick people off at the bottom of a hill. There are dozens of places near by where it is very unsafe to travel with any significant speed, however these are all low traffic volume areas where people sUrPrIsInGlY don't speed too often! It's much easier for him to raise revenue where he was then to prevent accidents on some of the other more deserving streets.

    After being booked I did the whole "OMG I have to abide by the speed limit at all times regardless of all other road conditions" thing. And was swamped with cars cutting me off and tailgating me the whole way to uni. What a fun ride that was, I felt sooo SaFe being caught up with all of the 'mindless' cars instead of ahead of them with a buffer zone.


    Wow, I just had to get that off my chest.
  2. .. talking about donating to Steve Bracks' retirement pension fund... I was caught doing 63 in a 60 zone, down hill and bugger all traffic back street a few years ago.. I could fight that in court but could end up paying more.. not worth it.
  3. 62 in a 60 or 103 in a 100 zone i could understand you being pissed off. But when its 25km over you cant really complain. "Speed kills" argument has nothing to do with it here. You were significantly over. 25km/hr is not just drifting over the posted limit.

    must resist........oh i cant help it

    cop it sweet
  4. They're not allowed to get you a downward incline are they??
    I think that'd get you off the hook if you objected.

    I've been snapped twice in the last 3 years by speed cameras and both times I chose to write in to the Victorian Police and request they waive my infringement due to the circumstances I provided in the letters. They let me off both times so maybe if you don't have the time to make a court appearance, you can write to them.
  5. I might try the line next time I get pinched, "officer I was 10k under back there does that give me a 10k credit"? Or does the law equally apply to everyone?

    Before I get flamed. I have been booked several times over the last 25 years and copped every one because the law applies to me as well, regardless of my skill or expertise or wether I'm some sort of road engineer. :LOL:
  6. Duffman,

    Yes you are right, but I never claimed that I just drifted over. I just said that it was my peak speed, I may have been doing that speed for all of 1-2 sec's as I accelerated from the side street to get into a good traffic position. And I mentioned that it was a fairly bizarre speed limit for the stretch of road. I REALISE THIS IS NO EXCUSE, but there was no speed sign after I pulled out from the street and from the appearance of the road and the area it was in I was thinking 80 zone not 70.

    Further, I will 'cop it sweet'. I mentioned this already. I broke the law (unjust as it may be) so I will pay whatever fine is applicable.

    Also, the 'speed kills' argument does apply here, in fact this is the exact circumstance that the argument does apply to. If 'speed kills' then why didn't I kill someone or was killed myself? I was speeding, so why is someone not dead? I was speeding 25 over the limit, which as you pointed out is significantly over the limit, yet no one is dead. Sort of makes you wonder doesn't it? As far as I am concerned I was traveling safely, and the direct proof is that I was (no one was injured or killed) you might suppose that there was an increased risk etc etc, however the DIRECT proof is that no one was injured or killed.

    My grievance is not with the fine, or paying the fine. so please do not take my rant as such. My problem is with the way that the authorities blame speed (and to a lesser extent drinking) for all of the accidents that occur without recognising or addressing the real (OR other pertinent) issues.
  7. 25ks over = you were speeding and copped a fine.

    2ks over = BS.
    You should not, and theoretically CAN not be fined legally for such a small margin considering national standards for measureing instruments including police radar guns.

    Low range speeding fines are crap & and the enforcement of them does not reflect community standards.

    Trouble is, no-one has the balls to protest or make the gov aware of this.

    The day 2k speed tolerance fines comes to NSW, is the day I spray paint speed camera lenses and leave a note explaining why at the scene.
  8. Yeah there great sittin at the bottom of a hill instead of catchin cagers talkin on there mobiles (pet hate).I hope your final fiqure was under 25ks as i think 25 ks over is now loss of licence :shock:
  9. My point was not that 10k's under there makes up for 10k's over here. I never mentioned or implied this concept, in fact it makes no logical sense in terms of rd safety. My point quoted in your post was about driving safely for the conditions. A small backstreet next to a primary school at 3pm is often not safe at 40kph (the school zone limit), I often go 20kph in these areas. But Geelong Rd is probably safe for speeds much greater than 100kph, however there are 4 sets of permanent cameras along this 100kph limited rd.

    Also I mentioned that I would cop it sweet as I broke the law. I am just complaining about the law (or the philosophy) itself, not suggesting it doesn't apply to me!!
  10. Ok your honour, yes, I was shooting randomly from the belltower with my AK47, but I missed everybody, so if it's dangerous why is nobody dead? sorta makes you wonder doesn't it?............. :roll:
  12. I'm confused. In what state do you not get the option on the form to defend a speeding fine in court?
  13. You know what he means, Inci.

    'Speed is a factor' in ALL motor accidents.
    In any accident, you were driving too quickly:
    - to travel safely over the patch of spilt diesel.
    - to avoid the kangaroo.
    - to stop before striking the car that pulled out in front of you.

    In any vehicle, speed determines time and space - and when you run out of either of those, an accident happens.

    It is misleading and ignorant of the government to tell us that simply travelling over the posted limit is the deciding factor between life and death - just because it's something they can measure and make money from.
  14. There is a favorite spot the "law" likes to set up there radars near my place. Its at the bottom of a steep hill and in a 60kph zone. They are there once a month. At the end of that street and 200m to the left is a primary school on a level road. I have never seen them there! I'd have thought in the interests of public safety, this would be a much better place to set up a radar? Maybe where they are is better in the intrests of raising revenues! :twisted:
  15. Oh dear lord.

    I award you the doosh-bag prize for the most idiotic comment ever posted on this site.
  16. Hmmm, probably want to get the analogy right first.

    "Your honour, I was at a shooting range with no other people present on the range, and shooting at the target which has a high sand-hill behind it, when an officer decided to charge me with the offence of using a rifle with a muzzle velocity of 400fps, when the firing range has a stated limit of 300fps peak muzzle velocity firearms".

    Directing a vehicle down an empty bit of road is substantially different to randomly firing a high-powered weapon into a crowd of people and just happening to miss everyone.
  17. Wow, so do you then not agree that the laws surrounding speeding are stacked such that there is little to no possibility of successfully contesting a fine?

    I guess you are also suggesting that you have never broken the speed limit.. to any extent as you believe to be as dangerous as sitting on top of a bell tower with a ak47 shooting randomly. Well congratulations to you. That is your opinion and you are able to have it, just as I am able to have mine.
  18. It was said tongue in cheek! OMG, you point out that I was SIGNIFICANTLY exceeding the speed limit at 25 over (perhaps you are right) and therefore I am different to those who only exceed by a few k's.

    Now I see 'speed kills' as saying speed kills all the time no matter what, if you are caught speeding you are a criminal. Whereas I contest that there are times where exceeding the speed limit by a little or a lot is not necessarily dangerous .. or lethal. that was my point, infer from it what you will, I think that reflects more upon you then me.
  19. Ok, yeah I do, but I just couldn't resist :LOL:

    I'm just as pissed off by the whole revenue raising bullshit as anybody, but at the same time lets not forget that speed does actually kill, if you are stationary you are going to need help to get dead.

    The problem is that in reality it is excessive speed that kills. The big mistake in my opinion is concentrating on how a little more speed = greater damage/injury, instead of excessive speed making an accident more difficult to avoid in the first place. The rider who was killed in WA recently on a bend, would almost certainly have been able to get back into his own lane in time to avoid a head-on with an oncoming car if he had been doing 90-100, instead of 180, ie closer to the posted limit.
  20. Well if thats how you see it then refer to my previous post.