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Do you think they teach enough at Licencing schools?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by Myestro, Jun 20, 2006.

  1. I got my learners last week. Thinking about what was actually covered in the course I can say not much at all. Basically we were taught whatever was required to pass the test and thats it. There was some info on what gear to wear, and a couple of videos which gave some safety info aswel, but thats about it. What have your experiences been? I think more needs to be put into the courses. From what I understand (and yet to experience) there is much more to riding than knowing to start stop and turn a bike.

  2. I have to admit that I use starting, stopping and turning alot. :grin: :grin:

    I do agree that there isn't that much in the class and there is a hell of a lot that is left up to you to work out for yourself and to pick up from friends and family (asuming that they know what they are doing !!).

    On that note, you are really only there to get your ticket, so thats all you do.

    Its a bit of a hard call really, but at least there are other training courses and ride days that you can attend where you will learn "real" skills and get "real" instruction. Also there is no substitute for 'bum in seat' time, assuming that you survive it.
  3. I don't think they teach enough at the learners course... I'm thankful that I had 7 years of roadcraft & about 18yrs of riding prior to getting my bike as that has proved valuable in my daily riding and definitely helped me to avoid many accidents and dangers in the 10,000+km's I've done since getting my bike!!

    The highest speeds we did on our learners course is 25km/h and then you walk out of there and jump on the bike and 50km/h feels fast :eek: not to mention what it feels like hitting the freeway for the first time :shock:

    A lot of the riders from my learners course looked shaky doing 25km/h, I haven't seen a lot of them since but judging from their riding in the course I wouldn't recommend for any of them to ride in traffic at 50-100km/h any time soon IMHO

    I know they are very limited in the time that they have to teach, and VicRoads sets the minimum of what they want tested... but they should definitely be testing at more realistic speeds and conditions!!

    just my $0.02 :wink:
  4. IMO I think you should have to do those other training courses prior to gettin your permit as a lot of people walk out of there with no family or friends to turn to for advice or help and often don't attend any additional courses as they're not required to...

    A lot of them walk straight out with not enough riding experience or knowledge and they're left on their own to learn and make their own mistakes :eek:

    I just think they should be tested in more realistic conditions before they are allowed to go and ride by themselves!! To get a car licence you have to be able to drive and stay within 10km/h of the speed limit (where possible) and you are tested in traffic!!
  5. getting L's next week.

    but i have a feeling that you are all right.

    kinda worrying considering once i get a bike its gonna be at least a 90K trip in the freeway to get it home......

    i think I'll be doing a few laps around suburban blocks before I pull onto the Calder
  6. I agree. It's so much easier to get a bike licence (for which I'm glad since I don't have my car licence at all) than a car licence. Conditions should be more realistic.

    The only times I've used the slow moving stuff is in the driveway (I have to do a 180 turn to get the bike lined up at the garage). They do give some good advice, but mostly I learned by being on the roads on my own bike.
  7. I agree too...I knew two people who rode but didnt have bikes when I passed my L's and I gotta admit it was bizarre...you go from riding around under 25kph in whats basically a carpark - then all of a sudden you're allowed out on the roads...

    Once I got my bike (got mate to ride it home for me as was 3months after L's) I used to get up early and be on the road on sunday mornings around 8am just going around the local streets - then progressed to williams - toorak - punt road- high street blocks to build up my confidence, but it was baby steps...

    I think they should definately involve some kind of road riding in the lessons so you're not suddenly faced with an increase of speed and cars around ya all at the same time...it was wierd enough going from learning in a car with someone beside with dual controls to driving totally on own and that was way back when but i can still remember my reservations...

  8. NO
  9. I don't know, because in WA you don't have to go to one. They exist, but are purely voluntary. In WA anybody who has held an unrestricted licence for four or more years can instruct, and then it's just take the test and get your restricted 250 licence, hold it for a year and take the test again on a 250+ machine, and the restrictions are gone. I have taught a number of people over the years, including my own three sons and a daughter, and so far they have all done ok but I admit I am very pedantic, particularly about situational awareness, the lack of which I believe is the cause of most accidents.
  10. I wholeheartedly agree with this. While not always true and there are obvious exceptions, I believe that quite often many motocyclists who have accidents with other vehicles where they are blaming the other vehicle, which while technically correct that the other vehicle may have violated the strict letter of the law, that most accidents can be totally avoided altogether with better situational awareness on behalf of the rider and taking appropriate cautionary action as a result.

    Even just this morning while riding the bike to get it serviced, there's a roundabout with 2 exit lanes. I needed to turn left up ahead and two cars were in front of me in the right hand lane. As a driver you just know that people like to hug the right hand lane around roundabouts before swinging across to the left lane later on without even indicating. I hung back and sure enough both cars swung across into my lane right in front of me without so much as an indicator blinking. Had I stuck the bike up the inside which I had every right to do, either one of them would've taken me out.

    Sometimes the ability to read, predict, and expect stupid behavior of other drivers is what keeps us on two wheels rather than expecting everyone else to be doing the right thing.
  11. You might be interested in this report:


    Researchers at Virginia Tech. put video cameras in the cars of 100 volunteers and recorded their driving over a year. They found
    Interesting reading. When you factor in mobile phones, putting on makeup, reading maps, volume controls, eating, etc. it's surprising that they didn't have more collisions or near-misses.
  12. I don't think there is enough "road postioning " i.e wheel track and buffering taught in the L's test -lesson.

    In the 15 minute lesson ,on "buffering" in the P's test day, taught me i was very lucky i didn't have a acco as i was always in the wrong wheel track for 6 months .
    This 15 mintues buffering lesson should be in the L's test.
    And a simple video ,showing it to NEW road users ,would really explain it clearly.
  13. I think that they should at least alert learners to the fact that there is alot more to learn. I mentioned Netrider to the guys in my class, the instructor didn't seem to know much about it, he may have heard of it but thats about it, I also mentioned the Ride Smart CD you can get for free from www.spokes.com.au, the instructor had heard of it I think, but I think it's something he should be telling us about, maybe they should even have copies there to hand out to everyone who does the course.

    It makes me wonder where the road authorities get their ideas for safety rules and licencing, they just have no idea sometimes. So many lives could be saved if driver/rider awareness was implemented into peoples minds from day one rather than hoping they live long enough to pick it all up from experience.
  14. Who knows what the guys are thinking that design the learners permit course??

    At HART here in Vic they do show videos about lane positioning etc., but I don't think it is enough to equip people (especially 18y.o's who haven't even driven a car yet) with "situational awareness, the lack of which I believe is the cause of most accidents".
  15. It's the bare minimum standard to reach. But you must remember there are some people (such as myself) have have no riding experience whatsoever, LOL even turning the key will be new to me ;). So let me ask you this - i'm passionate about getting a motorbike, but why should everyone descriminate against me because i have no experience? I would probably just pass the minimum standard for the bike test, but im enthuastic about it and i'm willing to learn. I would be happy to have the L's broken down into stages over more than a 2 day course, but that isn't the case....
    just my 2 cents...
  16. We aren't discriminating. We're saying that you taking that course won't equip you for the road as well as you should be.

    There's a massive difference between what they teach you on the course and what happens on the roads. For one thing, you don't have to worry about cars and the complete idiots who drive them on the course.[/b]
  17. theres only so much we can learn in 2 days...
  18. no one was discriminating, they were just saying that the l's stuff should cover more...
  19. Uh, this is what we're trying to say. That a close-circuit course over 2 days is NOT ENOUGH.

    It's not discrimination. It's obvious that yer typical "let's teach you to pass the L's test in 2 days" course simply doesn't prepare you for the road. There should be more, perhaps 2 days more at the least, which covers road, positional, and situational skills at a practical level.
  20. The two day course seems enough to learn how to ride - but it's certainly not enough to learn how to ride on a public road. One of the reasons why suggestions that having a car licence first be mandatory, or allowing people to ride sooner on low powered mopeds, probably aren't a bad idea.