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Do cage drivers actually see you

Discussion in 'Your Near Misses - A Place to Vent' at netrider.net.au started by Turrawan, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. I was watching a show the other night on the giggle box about magic etc. They were explaining how most people only see what their attention is fixed on. They did a few examples using studio members & people out in public. For example in the studio they asked the audience to count the number of times dancers dressed in blue entered & left a light beam on the dance floor. While the dance routine was happening a guy dressed in a penguin suit walked across the back of the stage. After the dance routine the commentator asked the audience who saw the penquin. About 1/2 the audience said they did.
    What was intriguing was what comment was made later in the show. Why is it that car drivers don't see motorcyclist & smashes occur. "BECAUSE CAR DRIVERS ARE NOT LOOKING FOR MOTOR CYCLES. THEY ARE PRIMARILY LOOKING FOR OTHER CARS"

  2. Check out this test

  3. Wrong.

    Car drivers are looking for holes. The trick is not to look like one.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Wrong. Drivers are primarily looking for cops. Trick is to look like one ;)
    • Funny Funny x 3
  5. Works for me, FJR1300AP, white.

  6. I saw the gorilla, but got the number of passes wrong. Does this mean I can see bikes, but will crash into them if their are lot's of them? ;
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. @tasman@tasman a mate of mine (cockrocket on Netrider) just picked up an ex police BMW, the run from QLD to the Central Coast of NSW was hysterical. Not one car cut us off, the right hand line was ours for the entire trip.
  8. How many Gorilla's do you see on the road every day? Could be a problem.
  9. #9 Bjpitt, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
    Not that many since I stopped commuting past the Bell street gym.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Doesn't worry me. I ride like they don't.

    Always know what plan B is.
  11. There are Gorillas on the Australian roads??? :-O
  12. The ad:

    However, I disagree, I think its more to do with perception and just how retarded a lot of people are.

    Best advice I ever received: Ride like your invisible to cagers. Sadly this doesn't apply to people you don't want to see you eg. cops.
  13. #13 iClint, Mar 6, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
    I think it is much simpler...

    People are idiot's and often reckless, and riders aren't exempt.

    I put in about 50+ hours a week on the road in a combination of car and bike, and I would say I experience just as many SMIDSY's in the car as I do on the bike.

    The difference is that most riders get a bit precious about it because they are on a bike, you just have to look at the "gopro near miss" thread most of the so called near misses I wouldn't even bat an eyelid at.

    I see just as many riders fail to see cars AND OTHER BIKES. Just recently I saw a bike pull out on a van in a round about, the van ebraked and the rider nearly broke his neck he turned his head that fast at the sound of screeching brakes to see this van bearing down on him.

    ... and yesterday I was filtering down the prince's Hwy to the lights outside the Heathcoat Maccas and had a bike pull out on me to start filtering to only shit his pants when I honked him and he pulled back in and almost dropped his bike.

    In the gorilla test I saw the gorilla but only counted 13 ball passes. I think the test points out what I see a lot of people do, and usually the people causing accidents and near misses, driving/riding requires so much of their concentration they don't have much brain power left for other tasks, such as risk perception and observation. These people are driving/riding all tensed up, you see them sitting bolt upright in the seat, white nuckle grip on the wheel and a super serious face.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. Probably the best way to ride is to assume they don't see you.

    Saw a crash the other day where a car turned across the path of a motorcyclist coming from the opposite direction. The motorcyclist assumed he had right of way and that fact alone was going to protect him. Didn't slow down at all, and he t-boned the car, wrote off his bike, and he was injured. That accident was completely avoidable.

    Assume nobody sees you.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Is it because they are idiots, or after a time people become complacent and lazy?

    Driving a car it would be very easy to engage autopilot.
  16. Looking like a cop does work quite a lot of the time, but you sure don't want to bet your life on it.
  17. Top Gear has the right of it!


    This one was good too
  18. Completely agree. It's all about roadcraft. If you position yourself correctly, you actually will get seen.
    BUT: There's still that small percentage of road users that don't look - it doesn't matter how good your roadcraft is, they still won't see you.
  19. Yep and that's a problem with being on the road rather than a bike. People smidsy cars and trucks too. Good road craft can put your visibility on par with a car. Its the hazard perception you need to crack that last smidgen of blind drivers.
  20. Funnily enough I experience about the same rate too... almost nil... but slightly more likely on the bike. The way I drive and ride minimises the likelihood of SMIDSY. What are you doing different that your car is getting as SMIDSY'd as often as your bike?

    If potentially ending up in hospital is a trivial thing, then your comment seems fair enough... but I suspect most riders feel seriously about the potential to be put into hospital by the negligence/lack of awareness of the typical driver. And so they should.

    Interesting place you ride then, or alternatively, interesting mindset you ride with if your confirmation bias is being reinforced by a few examples of unaware riders.

    There might be something in that, but half the people fail the Invisible Gorilla experiment the first time so it's not a universal thing... still half the humans tested fail to see the Gorilla... but almost all see it the second time. What does that tell you?

    Even so, there is a follow up experiment and a clear majority totally fail the "change" blindness test the first time - with almost everybody failing some part of the test when ever they see "change blindness test".

    So reality is, that the way we're wired, we can't hope to concentrate on all things at the same time and for many people, even something obvious in the middle of our vision is effectively blanked out if it's not perceived as relevant to the task at hand. Many drivers conducting the driving task with a clear program that says "avoid other objects that I recognise as a risk" tend to do just that and fail to acknowledge motorcycles.

    Add to that that the non critical parts of the field of vision are painted in by the brain using what it knows or what it thinks it picked up in that part of the vision, meaning that unimportant changes in this area are left alone. A bike entering the driver's non critical part of their field of view is effectively invisible if the brain doesn't register it as an important change to the picture.

    Then there's one other problem that bikes are often faced with... Even if they do see the bike, they could still fall foul of the "time to arrival" illusion meaning they incorrectly assess the bike's speed and position due to its small profile and their lack of motorcycle understanding.

    Riders can try to understand all that or simply ride around as if they are invisible - same difference.

    As you point out, it's not all the driver's fault. Of course some riders fail basic roadcraft and fail to see and act defensively around cars and other bikes - from my experience mostly because they ride with some inherent concept that their right of way will be respected. The aware riders divest themselves of such notions as "right of way".

    As for the white knuckle brigade with little left over to remain aware of traffic hazards, I think that's mostly limited to noobs and nervous riders so hopefully something they grow out of with time.