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Discussion: 2013 Election results

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by middo, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. Since @smee wants us all to stay on topic, I thought I would start a thread to discuss the election results and the resulting political fallout. Is that wide enough?

    Firstly, I notice that the right of politics are immediately using the "mandate" word when it comes to cutting the carbon tax and the mining tax. And yet the public did not really overwhelmingly endorse them by giving them power in the senate. Maybe Australian are having a bet each way?

    Also, when will the Murdoch press characterise this government as being in crisis, as it will not be able to get all of its legislation through the upper house without negotiation? We are already hearing of upper house reform, even though the lower house was not reformed after the last election gave us a hung parliament.

    Over to you...
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  2. @87crisis you hussy.
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  3. sleep with those in power....there will always be side perks
  4. My feeling is that they should vote to remove the carbon tax. A horrible thing to do, but the way the senate has panned out they wont be able to hold onto it after July next year. I'm pretty certain the mix of senators will not block the scrapping of the carbon tax. Although Labor should wait to see their position.

    The carbon tax works to change behavior by encouraging industry to change processes to reduce emissions. No one will do anything to change behavior given they will only have to pay the tax for one more year. This has also been a major problem with the LNP promising to dump it. No industry have bothered to invest in reducing their carbon footprint because they were not likely to pay the tax after the next election cycle. Those companies that have invested in reducing their foot print have thrown money away.

    Blocking the dumping will cost Labor and allow the smear campaign to continue until the next election.
  5. Having a different power base in the upper house compared to the lower house is the way to go. Best chance for good legislation.

    If the gov really really really want a piece of legislation that's been blocked in the upper house to get through and negotiations with senators doesn't clear the blockage, the gov can pull the trigger on a double dissolution and try to go for a genuine mandate.

    Edit: What's the Senate power structure looking like after the senators elect assume their roles?
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  6. some pretty interesting results for the senate it seems, that motoring enthusiast party, not that they do shit for riders or helped out at all with the CTP issue or smidsy etc is likely to pick up a senate seat, despite the fact the bloke looks and sounds like a complete moron im sure that his stance on speed limits, insurance, modification and general HWP harassment will be in line with riders thoughts. Even though roads are dealt with at a state level the fact that someone in parliament house might actually understand a little about motoring is great news for all enthusiasts.

    As for the others, im pretty disappointed to see the sex party not pick anything up in NSW, i was hanging out for some legal buds but it looks like that will be off the table however i doubt that the LNP would do anything but tighten the stance on drugs. Though i doubt anyone else would either, in the hung parli it was never brought up by the greens even though its their policy, clearly just bullshitting to get the stoner vote.

    Hopefully the LNP can fix some of the fcukups, but judging by the ability of nsw state liberals to clean up after the 13 years of labor embezzlement that is a high hope and unlikely to be easy.
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  7. It's looking like 26 Labor, 32 Coalition, 9 Greens, 8 Others.

    Senate Makeup
  8. https://newmatilda.com/2013/07/05/reform-what-nsw-reform

    Corruption isn't specific to one party, it's a trait which can be attributed to the political class in general.
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  9. Nearly 9% of the NSW population voted for the Liberal Democrats in the Senate, although one survey indicated that less than 0.1% knew their policies. One theory is that many of them where unable to distinguish that this was not in fact the Liberal Party. However they were also in the prime position for the donkey vote.
    Certain to support LNP policy. Family First have also indicated they will mostly support LNP policy.
    Murdoch and Fairfax have come out very strongly against the minor parties today.
    Power must be more closely guarded in future.
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  10. I haven't seen these papers, but I am guessing there is no comment about the Abbott government lacking the ability to govern, or being in crisis.
  11. John Anderson once said - off the record and in regard to LNP absolute majority in both houses - that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely... bear in mind that at the time he was deputy of the same government. I wouldn't trust Murdoch if I had a shotgun to his face.

    Yes, NSW libs have been the very definition of propriety. :confused:
  12. The proportional and preference voting seems to be getting a bit of stick.


    If a person's first option doesn't get in, then they choose who they would next most like to have represent them. etc etc etc down the list. A minor party getting into the senate because a large number of folk placed that party high enough up their list of options, still absolutely reflects the will of the people. I don't see why this is getting stick.
  13. Probably a bit too early to make a judgement, as at least a million below the line senate votes are yet to be counted. Personally, I would expect a lot of them to favour the minors so it could go even further into the wilderness.
    I also think a lot of the micro parties are somewhat right-leaning so it may not be as hard for the Coalition as they fear. The thing that really seems to upset a lot of power-brokers (media and party political) is that the micro-parties are not under anyone's control. They aren't part of the day to day horse-trading and alliances that helps keep government a members-only club.
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  14. Problem being preference deals. Parties were trading preferences with other parties that completely disagreed with each others preferences. I was considering voting sex party or wikileaks but decided against it given their preference deals with minor right wing extremist parties. Most other voters do not care or do this.

    It's not an alignment of ideology it's you preference me I preference you.

    Democracy should not be decided by these deals.

    Above the line preferencing may fix this a little bit but I don't think enough people will bother still.
  15. Those that vote with a 1 above the line have delegated their choice to allocate preferences to their preferred party - kinda like a proxy vote in an organisation, so I still don't see the problem. A political party plays politics and works the system to get the best political deal it can for itself. A voter would have to be naive if they thought that each party allocated preferences entirely on ideological lines.

    The major parties submitted preference plans too - and you can bet it's preference distribution benefited themselves.

    But I agree mate, it's the main reason I took the time to fill out all 97 boxes... my vote, my ideological preferences thanks. :)
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  16. As a confirmed below the line voter and being broadly centre left politically (though with enough foibles and single issue opinions to avoid pigeonholing) I certainly get the impression that the majority of micro parties are at least right leaning. We had 62 candidates on the Senate ballot paper here and by the time I'd got into the low thirties I was finding it hard to decide who I despised least of those remaining to be numbered.

    However, in general terms I'm perfectly happy with the preferential voting system (not to say it couldn't do with tweaking; I could have done without expressing any preference for the last 30 or so names, which Optional Preferential Voting would, as I understand it, allow me to avoid). Those bellyaching about it should be very carefully examined as to their motives and vested interests. If it's just because they don't like the results, tough. Under our current system pretty much any likely election result is one which won't be liked by >47% or so of the electorate, but most of us don't whine about the system itself.

    Given that I'm fairly sure my interests don't align with those of the owners or editorial policy setters of News Limited or Fairfax, as far as I'm concerned they can stick their objections up their collective, well fed arse.
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  17. I don't think many people at all understand how the senate works. I don't think these people who don't understand the system are naive at all. It's an incredibly complicated system.

    from here

    The AMEP got 0.56% of the vote or 4% of 1 quota.

    They got preferences from people who voted for:
    Bank Reform Party
    Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party
    Help End Marijuana Prohibition (HEMP) Party
    Shooters and Fishers
    Stable Population Party
    Senator Online (Internet Voting Bills/Issues)
    Rise Up Australia Party
    Building Australia Party
    Bullet Train For Australia
    Citizens Electoral Council
    Family First
    No Carbon Tax Climate Sceptics
    Palmer United Party
    Katter's Australian Party
    DLP Democratic Labour
    Socialist Equality Party
    Sex Party
    Australian Voice Party
    The Wikileaks Party
    Drug Law Reform
    Stop CSG
    Animal Justice Party
    Australian Independents

    Basically anyone voting minor voted for the AMEP.
  18. #18 robsalvv, Sep 9, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
    You mean anyone voting '1' above the line for a minor had their preferences distributed in a way that ended up seeing AMEP achieving a quota.

    Which means that enough people had enough of their "d'rathers" high enough up the list for it to count towards AMEP... whether they realised this or not.

    Actually, I wouldn't mind optional preference voting. I was like PatB, after about half way I couldn't decide who I despised the least to get my next preference vote...

    Langer voting should return for both houses.


    He was onto something.

    p.s. How surprised do you think Ricky Muir is today?? lol
  19. Unfortunately the team I voted for won. I was torn. I voted for the local Nationals bloke because he has done alright by the electorate - isn't that the idea of local members. But I also knew it was a vote for the "Mad Monk" .

    But given the choice between him and the other loonie party (very bad Goodies reference) I chose to go with the National bloke.
  20. Julia's legacy lives on with her disgraceful parachuting of Nova Peris into the #1 Senate ticket at the expense of the highly competent Ms Crossin being successful....