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QLD Discriminatory learners policy

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by Kobo, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. I have just discovered in another thread (Is rider training good enough) that in Queensland you can't get a learner's permit to ride a motorcycle without having a car licence for 12 months....I was gob-smacked.

    How has this been allowed to happen and then continue?

    This is sheer discrimination and the removal of choice. Here is a copy of posts I put in the other thread which encapsulate my arguments...

    "What if you are a low income earner? What if you simply hate cars and never want to drive or own one? It's discriminatory...Don't you get that? Not everyone can afford, or wants, to own a car or pay the absurd cost of getting a car licence using driving schools. It's just plain wrong anyway. I've worked in disability care and you have to balance your duty of care with their dignity of risk and this is a similar situation. If someone wants to ride on the road without previous driving experience it's their call, their life and no-one has the right to remove that decision from them."

    "I can't believe this is law. If this is true then why aren't motorcyclists in Qld lobbying constantly to have it repealed. It's outrageous to think that people who want to ride are being discriminated against by saying they have to be a cager first. This is akin to racism, sexism, ageism and homophobia and should be stamped out as soon as possible..."

    "Hey plonkey, even the rich are allowed to hate cars....The bottom line is it's discriminatory and should NOT be allowed to continue. I will be pushing this issue on every motorcycle forum and Facebook page that I can. I can't believe people have accepted this without a fight...It's disgusting, safety-crat bullshit...."

    What are your thoughts?

    Kobo :cool:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Unfortunately there are a lot of discriminatory and plain bad laws in QLD. Just look at VLAD and the crap Dictator Campbell Newman has come up with. Mandatory sentencing, anti association laws, No need for any actual or factual evidence of crime, the list goes on.

    You are right, it is BS to require a car licence for 12 months prior to obtaining a learners permit and the only way to fix that is for lots of people to contact the MP's responsible for the decision and getting them to fix the laws.

    Sharing the rage on social media such as here and facebook is a good start.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. #3 robsalvv, Jul 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
    Right thanks, that explains it. I noted some government screed a while back gnashing teeth and wringing its hands about the overriding majority of riders taking the Qride path and that this was possibly symptomatic of the easier pathway or some such.

    I think I heard out of the corner of my ear, that the QLD motorcycle licensing system is under review - do you have any info about that.

    The model that was being explored here in Vic was CBT with an L's test then supervised riding until P's test. Vicroads decided against it due to its impractical nature and poor "one size fits all" fit.

    Well that encapsulates the topic of this thread doesn't it. People have differing views about the adequacy of current training.

    Several things, but not worth getting in a sawing sawdust dust up over. For the record, the average age of the learner rider nationally is >30yo. In Vic it's between 33 - 35yo. So the vast majority of novice riders already have substantial on road experience by default.
  4. Sorry wasnt trying to be as upfront as I came across.

    I believe the system only had a 10 year life in it anyway. Basically that period was left open to get as many unlicenced riders into the system and some training.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Haha really??

    I got my scooter licence (class 'M') with 16 (up to 50cc), had to wait to get my car licence (class 'B') with 18. If I had had the cash, I would've gotten my baby-bike, class 'A1' licence (up to 125cc) with 16 - but I was too poor a girl, so I just went for the scooter license.
    Thankfully in Australia it's so cheap and quick to get your bike licence, that's why I finally got my bike licence down here (never got it at home, as I never had the money, nor the time for all the lessons).

    I think it's hilarious to have a car licence as a requirement for going for a bike licence. But who am I to talk, I come from a country where we have streets with no speed limits...
    • Like Like x 1
  6. It is a BS rule but I won't bother with why as 99% of people on a motorbike forum will know why.

    Why not turn it around and say everyone has to have 12 months minimum on a motorbike/scooter before getting a car license?

    IMO it would be a much better initiative, but will never happen.
  7. I think it stems from the many rider deaths when QRIDE was introduced, allowing learners to ride any motorcycle. I was surprised that system was allowed to continue for as many years as it did.
    Better rider training is the key not mandating you learn to drive a car first....
  8. I think it's a great idea... :p

    learning to ride a bike AND learning how to read traffic at the same time?
    seems muuuch easier/safer to already have a little bit of road awareness before trying to learn to ride a bike in traffic?

  9. Argh! My thread? A useful and helpful thread has been shattered into a thousand pieces and I'm so confused???? It's not a thread if you're whinging about someone in one thread and your whinge gets moved to another where that person's not even there. And now this reply is more relevant to that different thread but it's addressing @robsalvv@robsalvv 's question. Context, it's all about the context people.

    Ahem. Anyhoo.

    There was a parliamentary committee set up and it reported to Parliament in Queensland in October 2012:


    On review it looks like a reasonably unbiased discussion of the state of play in October 2012. It also has some interesting non-MUARC stats in it - mostly from CARRS-Q at QUT I think.

    I can see that some of the initial recommendations have already been adopted. Recommendation 2 (more learner permit questions), Recommendation 8 (restrict QSafe to areas without QRide). There are some 'interesting' recommendations too (another QRide six momnths after getting your RE; public education campaign for returning riders; refresher courses for returning riders; a proper pre-learner course). The minister is supposed to return annually reporting with an update so... there should be something from 2013 from the minister. There is a current filtering proposal being floated (parliamentary survey) but that's a ways off.

    Now, I thought there was a more substantive review (presumably as a result of this report) but danged if I can find it at the moment...
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  11. Thanks @@PossumBob, I'll add that to my collection of research and have a look over it as part of the MGLS process going on in Vic.

    Really helpful mate.
  12. Maybe not make the year on a bike a requirement, but make it an option, as it used to be in the UK.

    I dunno the current state of play, but, once upon a time, in Britain, you could get a bike licence at 16, but had to wait till you were 17 to get a car licence.

    I believe that it is quite common in Europe for 15 or 16 year olds to be allowed on the roads on mopeds or smallish scooters or motorbikes, well before they get to drive.
  13. I recon it probably doesn't hurt to learn the road rules with trainer wheels on (car). Riding a bike well takes skills that are beyond rolling around in a cage and I worry about a new road rider learning both the road rules and how to ride a bike in one hit.

    Ideally i'd say do your licence in a car while riding chook chasers in a paddock, then when you hit the roads on a bike you have a good handle on control and rules.
  14. Rob, I think this post is meant to be in PossunBob's thread about rider training. No wonder he's confused....
  15. @PossumBob@PossumBob, this thread is a completely different thread to yours on a totally different matter. But it doesn't help when people post answers to one thread in the wrong place...Sorry that you're confused...

    Kobo :cool:
  16. If you're that obsessed with safety well I have something to tell you about motorcycles...
  17. There appear to be some duplicated posts, not necessarily posted in the wrong thread. It may get cleaned up if someone has time, but if you stick to your topic it stay on the rails anyway.
  18. nah, motorcycles aren't dangerous at all. (but other drivers and some riders are ;) )
    no reason why we shouldn't let 17 year olds ride whatever size bike they choose on the road while they are learning to interact with traffic :)
    if they are sensible, they'll be fine.

    according to some, if you feel like you need to wear a helmet or any protective gear to save your skin, then you shouldn't be riding a bike :) why should that be any different for noobs?
  19. You can pick appropriates times and areas to get used to traffic. 12 months of sitting in a car should have nothing to do with riding a motorcycle, yet people who most likely do not ride but spend their lives trying to clamber up into positions of authority seem to think it makes riding a motorcyle safer.
  20. Motorcycling can be an inexpensive form of transport for those on a limited income..
    Licensing and training policies should balance the rights of an individual to access cheap transport against concern for their safety. It should not be exclusionary.

    No-one advocates allowing inexperienced riders on to 500kw/tonne bikes. I am concerned at efforts "cloaked" in the guise of safety which are really intended to reduce the number of new motorcyclists.