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Discrepancies between P restrictions between states.

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by picorat, Aug 20, 2005.

  1. Hi all,

    A seperate topic regarding how different states enforces different restrictions for P Riders got me thinking...

    See this thread

    So, I started to wonder, that if someone were on a P Unrestricted (NSW) License and rode to Victoria on, say, a 1100 cc bike, would he get pulled over by the police? Similarly, say if someone were to ride to victoria on a 660cc (max allowed by NSW) on a P license, which restricts them to a speed limit of 90 in NSW, would they be allowed to ride at 100 in Victoria?

    Relevant Literature =>


    Riding Your Motor cycle
    When you have your motor cycle licence issued, regardless if it is full or probationary, the following restrictions apply for 12 months. They are:

    * you cannot ride a motor cycle with an engine capacity exceeding 260 cubic centimetres
    * you must not ride a motor cycle while carrying a pillion passenger (a motorcycle and sidecar is acceptable with a passenger)
    * if you already have a full motorcar licence, you must have a Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) of .00% when riding a motor cycle

    I remember the time when I was in Sydney in year 2k (I was still residing in Victoria then) I got pulled over by a NSW police for making a U-turn at a traffic junction. He was nice about the whole thing, and when I duly explained that we could make U Turns at junctions unless specifically signposted otherwise in victoria, he was quite happy to just do the standard checks (is this car yours? kindly breath into the straw for 5 seconds.) after I produced my Victorian license. I was just told that it's not allowed in NSW, and promptly sent on my way. I didn't even get so much as a warning letter.
  2. This stuff is all grey, don't understand why they don't uniform Road Laws, Licencing etc., personally I think it should all come under the Federal Govt.

    Might be a good idea to do this with a link that long next time, it screws the width of the browsers.
  3. I can think of 40 other things that should be under one uniform code as well; the whole State thing just provides massive duplication of bureaucratic dimwits to justify their pointless existence.
  4. Thanks for the tip. Sorry, still quite unfamiliar about how to post stuff.

    I'm neither for nor against getting the road laws uniform, that's entirely up to States to sort out. One reason why these discrepancies occur, I reckon, is because different states put different authorities covering difference scopts to handle their roads. WA, for example, puts their department for planning and infrastructure to work on their road laws.

    However, at very least they ought to make an effort in trying to get their act together, and very importantly inform the road users the differences. That's why we take our theory tests, yah? It makes no sense to have someone commiting an offence for something so grey and misinformed.
  5. Hard to justify?? Yes, of course it is. But it will stay that was because the states make money out of it. If they were to yield their licensing powers to the Commonwealth, they'd lose revenue AND that indefinable thing called "autonomy"
  6. As far as I'm aware regarding the speed limits, you need to travel at the limit permitted by the state you're in for the licence you have.

    For example....

    L & P platers in Victoria are permitted to travel at the posted speed limit. If they were to travel to NSW they would then be restricted to the maximum speed for L & P's in NSW (80-90 km/h?).

    If a NSW licence L or P plater travelled to Victoria, then they are permitted to travel at the posted limit.
  7. So really what we need to do is travel to each state to find out the laws before we drive there, how stupid is this, do we live in Australia or Europe.
    I reckon I would fight that all the way.
  8. when going into another state you are required to obey there state laws.
    Speed, size restriction and EPA are the main issue's that change state to state.
  9. heya, thanks for the info.

    but, uh, not to shatter the credibility of your statements, but do you have any definitive statements or literature from anywhere to verify that? It's just that it's hard to explain to a policeman why you're 10kph over your restrictions.

    Especially when the number (90) is embossed on NSW P plates.

    I think the major point of contention here is size restriction. Is Vicroads really expecting NSW riders to leave their 650 cc bikes at the border and switch to a 250cc bike to be compliant with their laws?

    they could well be. It's just that I find it quite silly, and seriously, i think there's cause for concern if silly people are managing the roads which we drive/ride on.

    Just as a quick update, I've been browsing Commonwealth Legislation. The only relevant legislation I can find is the Interstate Road Transport Regulations 1986. Still reading it at the time of posting, but it seems to relate more to the regulation of vehicles. I will try to point out relevant sections if I find any.

  10. The differences seem to be with both traffic rules from state to state and licence restrictions. Since the 250 restriction for learners/Ps is a licence restriction I would assume that it applies no matter which state you are in since you are still using that licence - so NSWs should be able to ride a LAMS bike in Victoria since that is what their licence restricts them to. Not sure about the 90kph speed limit in NSW, if it's a licence condition then it shouldn't apply to Victorians but if it's a state road law then I assume it would.
  11. I'm fairly certain that even though you have to obey the road rules of the other state/territory that you're riding in, the licence rules stay as your default state wherever you go.

    For example, on ACT/Vic P licence, you can still legally ride your 600cc bike in NSW, at 110km/h. You won't get done for speeding for going over the 90km/h-100km/h speed restriction.

    Another example is if you have 8 demerit points on your ACT P licence, you will still have 8 demerit points in NSW, instead of automatically dropping down to 4 points when you cross the border.

    So basically, get your licence or change your licence to the state with the best licence scheme that suits you (ie not NSW), then enjoy the freedom! :D
  12. There seems to be some rather vague "advice" being posted in this thread, that if someone were to take notice of it, they might end up getting pinged.

    It'd be rather prudent if someone on their L or P plates wants to travel interstate, then to contact that state's road authority to find out for sure.

    When it comes to restricted speed limits, I'd be believing that it would encompass all L or P platers, regardless of where they got their licence/learners. Just like Victorian riders have to have an emission label attached to their mufflers when venturing into NSW, even though it's not a requirement here.

    A few years ago, the various states road authorities got together to allegedly map out a set of national and uniform road rules. They came up with the Australian Road Rules. But that's as far as it got. Each state decided to implement their own versions of the rules, and this is evidenced with the licensing anomalies, U turn restrictions, varying speed limits, unique left/right turn rules, eg: the right turn from left lane or "hook" turn in Melbourne's CBD, the lane splitting laws, radar detector laws (WA allows them, other states don't) and so on.
  13. Hiya all,

    I called up RTA to confirm what the rules regarding interstate riding were, and they were at quite a loss. Instead, they asked me to contact VicRoads instead.

    Which was what I did. And after a little research, he gave me a reply, which was basically yes. And I asked him to forward the relevant sections to me.

    And I quote, from his email

    Interstate Must carry a conditions document at all times when driving
    drivers in Victoria. It must be produced to police on demand and
    should be produced to VicRoads when applying for a Victorian
    licence to enable the conditions/restrictions to be

    So it seems like, all we gotta do, is to print out our license restrictionsm and carry it around.

    But that would mean that our 90kph limit stays as well. So.... :(

    Hope this clears up lots of stuff. Thanks for all the replies so far. It's always nice to hear other opinions. ;)
  14. Yeah, I went through this with the car.

    Basically I was told that you obey the law within the state you are going to and the restrictions placed upon your license in the state you are from.

    That means speed limits for NSW P platers in Vic but you can ride your LAMS approved 600.
  15. so you are trying to tell me that when i go down to NSW i have to put P plates on my car?
  16. Gawd... don't go to the NT then, you'll have semi's buzzing by you at light speed. :LOL:
  17. No because displaying Ps is a restriction of your license not a law for Joe Public.
  18. What it comes down too is the police in one state can't apply the law of another.

    That, and you have to obey the law of the state you are in.

    L's are a PERMIT to ride until you get a licence in a particular state. My guess is you are not allowed to ride in another state unless you get a permit there.

    P's are provisional. i.e. you get an x state drivers licence PROVIDED you obey these rules. But they are unenforceable in another state.

    You can't get a ticket in NSW for violating a VIC licence provision, because the police have not way of enforcing it.

    Alternative you can’t get a ticket for breaking a NSW provision, because that is not one of the provision of a VIC licence.

    Of course you would have to convince the cop not to make you go to court to prove he can't give you that ticket.
  19. ;)

    But in areas where there are no speed restrictions, there should logically be no speed cameras as well???

    So it's entirely up to our personal integrity to ensure that we keep within the 90kph??

    Hmm, seriously, these inconsistancies are getting me down.
  20. Yup, the problem here is that whilst most of us think that NSW P riders are allowed to ride a >250cc bike in Victoria, nobody's really sure where that is stated in the rule book.

    In fact, when I say nobody, that includes RTA n' the Victorian Police. Yup, you read that right, the Victorian Police. Which really means to say that the law enforcers of the state are not sure what to enforce.

    Following my conversation with Vicroads, I quite happily rung up RTA ask if a printed list of LAMS would be acceptable, since our P restrictions are not printed on our license. Yes, they said, but they then advised me to ring up the Victorian Police.

    Which of course, I quite happily did. Whilst explaining the situation 1/2way, the guy at the other end of hte phone then said that he doesn't think that NSW P riders are allowed to ride >250 bikes in Victoria. To his credit, he was very courteous when he asked that I be put on hold while he checks it up.

    5 mins (literally) later, he came back to say that he thinks that he's right. I then informed him that both RTA and Vicroads have indicated that NSW P plate riders are allowed to ride >250cc bikes in Victoria. He then conceded he's not sure, but he'll check it up for me, and asked that I forward a copy of LAMS and the reply from Vicroads to him.

    Oh, police in victoria don't know about LAMS, by the way.

    Anyway, that's that. He's going to reply, soon i hope. Ya, all that fuss and I forgot to ask if a copy of printed LAMS are acceptable as a form of substitute for our printed license restrictions.


    Not to put the police in Victoria down, but one of the reason why i want to be crystal clear on this is because Victorian police are not very receptive to questioning. The last time I was stopped (and the only time, short of standard road blocks and checks) by them was for making a hook turn on green lights back in 1999.

    When I was pulled over, I very politely (in my opinion, keep in mind i was 18 then, with a p plate and it was my first encounter with a police.) asked what was wrong. He promptly asked if I was color blind. I said no, and then went on to ask (still very politely) if I was not allowed to make a right turn on green lights. He then very rudely replied 'what's the matter? I already said no' He then went back to his car, returned, gave me a ticket and asked me to stay in my car. After around 15 minutes, I had to walk over to ask him if i was allowed to go yet. He then replied, "well i didn't say that you can't"


    Seriously bad attitude. I was going to complain, but decided to let it slide. Thankfully, the dude on the phone was quite polite. A saving grace for an organization which I have such a bad impression of.

    Anyway, apparently you can make complaints on the Victorian website regarding their attitudes. Just something for us to take note.

    NSW police, by contrast, are angels. I've already related the first incident . The second time I was stopped, just around 2 months earlier, he just did some standard checks. And promptly allowed me to leave when there was nothing wrong.