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Differences in helmets of different standards?

Discussion in 'Riding Gear and Bike Accessories/Parts' started by daevilone, May 3, 2016.

  1. So the fiance has said that she'd like to give this motorcycling thing a try (which is amazing).

    We are not quite up to buying gear yet but I'm doing my research in hopeful preparation.

    I note that NSW has now allowed the use of the ECE 22.05 European helmets and we are planning a move to the UK for January next year. It would be really handy to buy a helmet now and then just take it with us instead of buying one for the next 7 months then buying another in Europe.. I'll already have to buy another over there.

    The question is, if you go try on helmet XXX with no ECE 22.05 sticker (but the AS sticker instead) then go buy the same helmet XXX from a EU website with ECE approval, are the helmets going to be the same? Or, are the helmets going to at least fit in the same way?

    I guess it's not a question that can be answered too easily but any advice would be amazing.

    I also note that a lot of the helmets are approaching 50% of the cost of getting one here...
  2. I bought a ECE 22.05 open face with a full visa from china, $80-00 Delivered, Its great, A lot lighter than my previous one,
    It has all the stickers for OZ on it and complys with Vic Rules,
    This company makes a million and a half helmets a year, and do their own testing,
    They comply with the Euro standards,

    The fit is good, But I wear a beanie under it to stop wind noise and bugs,

    A DOT helmet is made to the Manufacturers own safety standards, I personally wouldnt touch one in a fit,

    No Idea on NSW regs, But you can look it up on Google,
    Or ask on here, Some one will tell you, They are very good for that on here,
  3. well no ... DOT is self regulating to a formal standard ... it is not as you describe ie manufacturer's own standard.

    My Arai (now pensioned off to a planter) was DOT ...
  4. #4 deadman, May 3, 2016
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
    Manufacturers own standards or self regulating is basically the same thing,

    No, I dont trust manufacturers with self regulating standards, Of Any thing,

    Plus when I was checking to buy mine, The Dot helmet wasnt allowed,

    Only the ECE 20.05 was allowed, with Australian stickers attached,

    The legalitys of the Dot helmet is not my concern as I dont have one,
  5. What helmet do you currently use?
  6. A helmet may meet many standards around the world however may only have the sticker for the market its sold in.
    Contrary to popular belief manufactures sell the same helmet across all markets with minor variations such as different cheek pads to markets such as Asia....they aren't made specifically for Australia.

    Go down to your local bike store/s and try on all the helmets in your price and slightly above. Certain brands will fit better than others depending on the size of your shape.
    Once you've narrowed down the brand/size and style then order it online...do try to support the store though if you use this approach.

    Remember that you don't need a $1500 helmet. A good fitting helmet can be just as safe and contain many of the same features.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Well, that's plumbed the depths of misinformed claptrap.

    To attain an AS/NZS1698 approval a helmet must be tested and certified within Australia, and the certification standards are significantly different to ECE 22.05 and DOT. They do not 'just' put a 1698 sticker on a helmet, and inevitably the helmet manufacturing requirements are unique for Australia. As such they have to be made specifically for Australian AS/NZS 1698 compliance and hence the 11 year battle to allow ECE 22.05 helmets as well.

    If they were the same, do you really think that such an effort would have been undertaken to allow ECE 22.05 usage and sales within Australia?

    The best example I know is the BMW System 6 helmet which took 3 years to be certified for AS1698, which included such modifications as fairings over the flip hinges, heavier and stiffer shell and prohibition of sale with Pinlock visors. The comparative weights are about 420gm heavier for the AS/NZS1698 version compared to the European ECE 22.05 one.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. I have to wonder where that 420gm goes ...
  9. Well they do...its not hard to meet As1698 judging by the $50 helmets I've seen!

    Australia has some slightly different tests such as impalement and variations on the impact tests however they certainly aren't made "For Australian Conditions", most of the big players AGV/Shark/Arari/Bell/Nolan will very likely meet and exceed the requirements for here. Cheaper helmet manufactures or with radically different design philosophies may need to reinforce their helmets to meet these tests.

    Don't start me on the industry protection here and games our importers play in the name of 'safety'!
    In some cases your paying for the sticker, other times a helmet is rejected over trivial bureaucratic changes

    One BS example is (at one point in time, not sure now) the top end Schuberth helmets not meeting Australian Standards due to them using a ratchet strap as opposed to the standard D-rings. Subsequently Schuberth disagreed and refused to jump through the hoops for such a small market.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Bottom line is that, regardless of detail (or even greater) differences between standards, any helmet you buy which genuinely meets an independently verified standard from an OECD country will provide a reasonable degree of protection from head injury. If they didn't, we'd see significantly higher rider death rates in countries mandating standards other than AS1698 and, IFAIK, we don't. That is not to say that they will all provide the same level of protection from all kinds of impact but, overall, you'll get something which probably won't let you die unnecessarily.

    It's that "genuinely meets" bit that concerns me. I'd be happy enough buying something from a reputable supplier in the US or Europe but I doubt if I'd be comfortable with something I found on AliBaba, direct from the Chinese manufacturer. I've had some professional experience of Chinese standards compliance and it doesn't fill me with confidence.
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. I've no doubts that helmets made by reputable manufactures certified to pretty well any standard are going to be "safe".

    It's stories like the difference in the BMW helmet (and I've come across some other helmets where differences have had to be made to meet AS1698 ) that I'm curious about.

    Not where the differences are of whether one of them is safer than the other but purely in terms of fit.

    What I've gathered from this thread and my other research that there MAY be a very small change in fit (no guarantee of either) but I guess the overall fit and certainly the fit style should be the same.
    Therefore, there shouldn't be much risk with buying an ECE helmet from overseas after trying on the AS1698 version of the same helmet, which is good news as it's likely a $600+ saving for us :].
  12. My apologies, that's the difference between my Schuberth C3 Pro and the AS1698 BMW System 6, both with manufacturer's bluetooth fitted.

    The difference in weight between the AS1698 and ECE 22.05 System 6 is 180gm. Mea culpa, but still enough weight to be noticeable.
  13. #14 fatbastard, May 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2016

    the main difference is that the Australian standard requires the helmet to withstand two consecutive strikes in the same location. That means the shell has to be stronger, which means more material and more weight. A stronger stiffer shell also tends to transmit more force as it doesn't absorb as much energy by deforming, so that often means more shock absorbing liner materials. The end result is a stronger but heavier helmet. No other helmet standard requires this as far as I know. Is it better? well if you're going to hit the helmet in the same place twice, then yes it is. If not, well, you probably have a greater chance of neck injuries due to the increased weight of the helmet.

    Hi deadmandeadman,

    Firstly, ebay is full of cheap copies of popular products. If they're making that many helmets and they're selling well, someone somewhere will be making cheap knockoffs. So hopefully the ebay store is controlled by the actual manufacturer or a reputable trader.

    Secondly, Chinese manufacturing is still a bit wild west in some respects. Procurement is often corrupt and kickbacks get paid to accept out of spec raw materials. Workers don't want to get colleagues in trouble and managers don't want to have rejected product that costs them money. The end result is that quality control can be quite hit and miss. We use Chinese manufactured raw materials in some of our products, but we do incoming QC to check critical parameters. I have seen certificates of analysis come in for batches of raws that I can see straight away are falsified before we test anything.

    While I would expect an ECE helmet to be lighter than an AS one, and open face will be lighter than full face, if it's really a lot lighter I would be worrying about whether it's one step up from toy shop quality.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. I buy a lot of stuff from China, Electronics for navigation, Even a 27 HP Tractor, Back hoe and 4 in one bucket, This one is a toy tractor compared to more expensive others, But it does the job for me,
    I usually go for a tour thru their factorys before I buy any thing, I do buy from the Manufacturer only, Direct,
    Yep, Their is a lot of crap coming out of China, But if you research it thoroughly, You can usually get a good quality product with out the huge costs we pay for the same thing here, And in the same packaging, hahahaha
    And I have been caught out, My Ignorance, Not Knowing, And no information from others to verify it, Mainly information on a product which every one buys, but no info on which type is better,
    Fairings is the Example, The difference between Thermoform and Injected Fairings, They look the same in the ads, Same price, But you wont know till its in your hands and you try to fit them,
    As no one says which type they bought, They can one type and praise the other, But which is which,
    I have had both, Thermoform are absolute Crap, the paint is splotchy and the fit is no where near where they should be, The holes are not even close,
    Whereas the Injected ones fit perfectly and the paint is perfect, They look like OEM,

    Prices vary wildly, From dirt cheap to hundreds more, In some cases thousands more, Postage is another trap for the unwary, $10-00 Item, $150-00 for postage, Hahahaha
    Very cheap is usually crap, or El Cheapo Knock offs,
    But if you can track down the actuall manufacturer, You have a good chance of getting quality products,
    Their Market is 3 Billion People, They make some incredible products, Even more so crap products,

    Another instance, My Invertor for my ocean going Cat, It was $2000-00 here for an 1800 Watt one, Supposedly American Made,
    It was designed in Canada, The Company was American, It was made in China, I tracked down the manufacturer in China,
    They also make their own Invertors, Different colour but the same invertor, They export world wide, The American ones are only a very small part of their operations,
    I bought a 5000 Watt invertor from them, for $500-00,Delivered, Here, This same invertor is 5 to 6 grand, Different colour, Same packaging, same Company,
    Their Factory is incredible, I did an online tour of it,

    My helmet was the same, I did an online tour of the factory, It is a huge factory, They export world wide and a lot goes to the EU,

    When Honda's first came out, Jap Crap, 750 Fours got 80,000 kays before you even thought of waving a spanner at them,
    My High class quality built Triumph Bonnieville was a peice of crap compared to the Honda 4,
    • Like Like x 2