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Did dealer scam me on bike sale?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by zoidbergs, Feb 21, 2008.

  1. Bought my first bike.

    New one goes for $11000, I got this one for $9400. Registered in Sep- 2007, 1300 Km. Bike was originally bought from same dealer. Rego until Sep 2008. Manufacturers warranty until 2009.
    It's not small dealer. They represent two major brands of bikes. Not a top 3 dealers in the city either.

    Before sale I asked to look at bike's service book. Dealer insisted that bike is almost brand new and there's nothing in the book to look at. I let that go.

    When bike was delivered, the dealer handed me just one key! He said that "he will try to get the second key (from original owner)". Also did not give me the Owners book.

    So I got the bike without owner's manual and second key.
    Basically I got the bike as you have it when you go for a ride: Leaving the book and 2nd key at home. Previous owner has died? His/her house burned down?

    After I didn't get the 2nd key and book I started to look into details carefully. Found in "dealers notice" (which is receipt for sale of the bike) odometer reading is less by 500KM than actual on the bike.

    Bike looks and runs perfectly. it is indeed like new. The only thing I found that it has little rust on footpeg. meaning it was kept outside.


    - Didn't get second key. Dealer did not notify about missing key before sale.
    - Didn't get Owner's manual book. Dealer avoided to show the book before sale.
    - in sale papers odometer reading has 500KM less than actual.

    May those problems be an indication of something criminal, dodgy? Or it's a minor thing?

    Is Dealer obligated/regulated by law to supply 2nd key and the book ? Should I go to police and check the VIN?
  2. check under the seat i was told by my dealer that they couldn't find the manual or second key,

    i got home popped open the seat and hello hello whats this then guv
  3. Was the bike sold as "new", "second hand" or "ex-demonstrator" at all???
  4. No there's nothing in the boot.
  5. There shouldn't be a VIN or REVS problem with the bike as dealers are obliged (in NSW) to verify these details before they are allowed to put a second hand bike on the floor for sale or they can loose their dealer licence.

    500Kms you said? They probably used the bike as a demo or a loanie in the interim of they getting it and selling it to you.

    I would demand the owner's book and warranty manual and a second key. It is not mayor but it is nice to have it for when you sell it/trade it in the future.

  6. Tehre's no NEW, or EX-DEMO in any of documents. It's just sold. There is clause about second-hand related warranty conditions marked in bold (Part5 of "Dealers notice"). That's it.
  7. did you maybe ask the dealer again for the key and book? Sales guys may hound you when theyre trying to sign you up for a sale, but unfortunately, after that some will forget you even existed.

    Would pay to call them and ask em again. IF no luck, call, call, call, call, call again.

    You should be pretty safe buying a bike thru a dealer but personally, I would have checked the VIN beforehand anyways.

    How long ago did you sign the papers? Surely you have some sort of cooling off period you could use as a bargaining tool?

    But more to the point, you just bought a new bike.....WTF are you doing sitting at a computer?? GET OUT AND RIDE THE BASTARD!!!
  8. Without the Service Book you may have difficulties with Factory warranty. You will need to get this sorted one way or another, new service book with the dealer indicating date and time of the first service. Also that should have the form to fill out to send the warranty transfer to the Head Office of the manufacturer.

    I know with Honda the warranty transfer form has to be filled out and sent within I think 14 days or 500km from purchase and the bike has to be inspected and signed off by an authorised dealer.

    All companies have a clause in the new bike warranty that the bike must be serviced to the manufacturers specifications, every xxxx kms or the warranty would be void.
  9. can i ask????????? what did you get? :?:
  10. A bit shady maybe, thats assuming he knew there was no book.

    Not a huge drama though, just demand they get a new servicebook/manual, sign for the previous servicing and cut you an extra key.
  11. I doubt you were "ripped off". A simple REVS check (its free and you can do it online) will sort out any concerns you may have about the legitimacy of the vehicle.

    OK so there is no manual or second key; its reasonable to expect that you should get that with a vehicle so young. Particularly if they marketed it to you as "as new". Call them and insist that you get them, or that they supply another manual and copy you a key. You may need to speak to someone higher up. That said though, I dunno if you are, strictly speaking, legally entitled to it, as you agreed to get what you were given when you handed over the money and signed the papers. If you wanted the second key and manual etc, you need to ensure that it is there BEFORE you hand over your money.

    The 500km difference could be explained by the possibility of it being used as a demo for prospective buyers or ridden by the staff. Again though, you need to check these things before you sign and get them amended if necessary. Honestly though, mate, why worry about it? The odo said 1300 when you agreed to buy it and as long as they are legitimate km (IE not wound back) then what does it matter what the document says? If it said 0km then perhaps be suspicious but the 500km sounds like demo km to me. Perhaps they prepared the document when they received the bike, and simply didn't update it when they sold it. At worst they are probably guilty of being a bit lazy and not updating the document when they sold it.

    Don't spoil it for yourself! Go out and enjoy your new bike. On one of your rides (sooner rather than later), drop in to the dealership and tell them how much you love it - then ask to speak to the Sales Manager about sorting your manual and key out.
  12. 1. Extra miles just mean they demoed with it or rode it to and from work a few times. No biggie, you knew it had 1300km when you bought it.

    2. Being a used bike they are only obliged to give you what the previous owner gave to them and/or anything else they specifically promised you. However you can definitely talk them into a service book with stamp for 1st service if it has been done, maybe talk them into a manual, and you might get them to hassle the previous owner into bringing in the other key. Depends on the previous owner because Im sure you don't want him/her
    to have a key to your bike.
  13. If you purchased a bike that has only 1300km the service records would be on record at the dealership, especially if it was purchased new from the same dealer.

    I would bet that the first service would be a warranty item anyhow .

    If you can't get the original book ask the dealer for a duplicate book and keep records from here on . Attach the printout from their records of the original service and problem fixed .

    As for the key, surely the dealer can arrange a second key , its only a small gesture to keep a customer happy .
  14. He can supply


    Don't worry about the extra km's. As there is nothing you can do about that.

    As for a owners manual he can definately get you one of those. A second key can be cut and supplied by him. If he sold it to you as a NEW / DEMO then he is required to provide a second key on purchase. However if he sold it as a second hand bike then it is as you find it.

    It is a little upsetting that you found out about some of these issues after sale. :evil:

    I would also make sure the bike is fully insured as there is now a spare key floating around somewhere!!

    Trust no body.

    Best of luck and as mentioned get on it !!! :LOL:
  15. Dosen't sound like anything dodgy. Could be a number of things that simply explain the situation. Looks like yours is just a 2nd hand bike (with really low kays). No biggie. I bought my bike with 800km's on it. It's an ex demo so I got the books, keys and balance of factory warranty, and I got a really good deal so I'm not complaining. BBBBBBBBB Bandit! lol
  16. Depending upon what bike, you should be chasing that 2nd key, some models require a master key (one of the originals) to program any new keys in case you lose one, this will apply to some bikes with factory immobiliser, like Honda's or R1/6 They have a red programming key, no key and you will be farked when and if you need to replace a lost key.
  17. Dont stress, get a second key cut ,its not a fortune, send the bill to the dealer, im sure they will pay it.
    Your bike should be on the register as under warrenty, just ring Honda, Kawasaki or suzuki or HD or what ever it is you bought and ask them to send you a new book, go to the dealer and get them to stamp 500k service
    end of problems
  18. Well, personally I think you should be concerned.

    First, the dealer got the bike back at 800Km, now it has 1300Km, and there is no service book. I would lay very good odds that the bike has not had its first service at all. The dealer should have been up front about this, and they should have serviced the bike if they were using it as a demo or loaner. However, my experience is dealers do not service second hand bikes while in their possession, unless on resale it is negotiated by the buyer.

    Second, you haven't said what bike it was, but TWEET hit the nail on the head. If this was a recent model Ducati, you need to get two black keys, one red master key, and a code card to the engine immobiliser. If you don't have the code card and the red key, the loss of your only remaining key will require replacement of the Dash, ECU, and keys in order to get the bike going again. That's about $3000+. The story may be similar for recent models of other brands.

    Third, why wouldn't the books and keys be available if the bike was so new? I would suspect a hostile repossession of the bike, perhaps a bounced cheque or something? In which case, you have one pissed off ex-owner who has keys to your bike somewhere, who would probably consider using that key to get "his" bike back.

    Do something about it, ASAP. But make the dealer recover the keys. You don't want the previous owner to know who you are, or where you live.

    Yes, you were scammed, although this is pretty normal practice for older second hand bikes. You should have stopped the sale when they couldn't provide the book and keys.
  19. I'm with Rod.

    Just imagine my slightly dodgy mate owns a bike shop, so now I can easily find out where you live, and being the original owner, I still have the key to $10k of your hard earned.

    Tell them they have a week to produce original/replacement keys and original/replacement service book, to ensure the validity of the warranty they say you have until 2009. Tell them you want the first service done at their expense as through their failure to produce the original book, they cannot guarantee that the service was done.

    If the bike went in with 800k's and got demo'd to 1500, do you think the dealer would be assed to do the first minor service?

    Tell them you expect to be informed of their intentions within 1 week, or you will be seeking advice from the ombudsman. And whatever you do, don't just forget about it. That's probably what they are counting on.
  20. Have you baught a bike from a dealership before? You have to go into those places knowing what to ask for or you will get nothing.
    A year ago i purchased my 2003 R6 from a dealer and demanded that it be serviced before pick up. They also gave me all three keys and the owners manual including all old service receipts.
    I would be a little worried about someone out there still having a key to your bike. You work hard for it and the last thing you want is some idiot to take it all away. Does not look good on insurance when there is no signes of forced entry.