Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

'Dealer only' servicing - fact or fiction?

Discussion in 'Maintenance and Servicing' at netrider.net.au started by titus, Nov 11, 2011.

  1. Putting this in General because I'm interested in the technical and consumer aspects rather than the legal and political ones, OK mods? (move if you think I'm wrong).

    From this source:

    Now if the EU does manage to bring in anti-tampering measures, could local importers follow suit for business reasons? Could Manufacturers perhaps use lock-out codes to prevent non-dealer workshops and home mechanics from servicing their bikes? That would keep a lot of business in-house. Would it be legal to do so in this country? Would it work? What might happen to someone who found a way around it?

    Is it happening already? (I wouldn't know, I'm still analogue )
  2. If it's just a basic service then there shouldn't be any problem, but, one of the issues of taking any modern vehicle to a mechanic that isn't part of a dealership is they MAY not have the appropriate diagnostic software or tooling.

    The company I work for has a network of heavy vehicle workshops. We have to buy or lease the software from the manufacturers in order to perform some repairs on the trucks. This means we have multiple software packages to cater for the different makes and models we have.

    I was talking with a Triumph dealer a couple of months ago about this and he said for minor services, brakes etc no problem any bike mechanic should be able to do it. But, if it requires any diagnostic work done (reading codes etc) you'd need to take it to a Triumph dealer as they are the only ones who (legally) have the software. The same is true for BMW, Ducati, Aprilia and probably the Japaneese makes as well.
  3. Sounds like third line forcing, which is prohibited under the Trade Practices Act.
  4. Some of the electric cars are getting their "tune ups" or new software mapping via the internet, so it might go the opposite way.

    Even IC vehicles could do the remapping of fuel injection and diagnostics centrally and remotely via the internet and you won't even need to take the vehicle to the mechanic. Though I guess dealers won't like the loss of business so might put pressure on manufacturers not to do this.
  5. I would say it's illegal and unethical.
    What happens if you break down?. The repairer will need the fault codes.
    And some of this is already there. How many have fitted pipes only to have the EFI light come on and stay on?
    And lastly like now with a lot of cars we just take the sensors out of the oem product and put them in the aftermarket product so it knows no better.
    So what a load of crap. Try it. We will beat it you farkers
  6. Its actually more likely "Anti Competitive Conduct" under the Australian Consumer Law (the replacement to the TPA, but your point is valid.

    Third line forcing is where for example, I say: "I will only allow you to buy my brand of soft drink, if you keep it in an XX brand fridge. You are forcing a person to buy someone elses (not your) product as a condition of buying yours.

    I'm 99% sure that the ACCC would view this in the same light as they did the attempts (by dealers) a few years back, to stop the "Ultratunes" of this world servicing your Comedy Car.
    It didn't go well for the dealers......
  7. Don't take this as Apathy
    Sign me up for protesting should this sort of idiocy get proposed here.

    But did anybody else read this:
    And think "Oh noeZ! not a warning light! I'd better never mod my bike because then I'd have to disconnect that LED while I was in there."
  8. NO WAY,Someone somewhere on the 'net will find a way...like the guys using 'TuneECU' to download fuel maps & tune their KTM,Triumph's & Aprilias for nix.
    I also work in heavy transport were everything gets bypassed,modified or discarded if its unreliable,like ABS/EBS systems which IME dont work on most heavy vehicles over 200k klm.
    Manufacturers just do whats needed to keep selling their products...we get them & mod them to be actual reliable usefull products.
  9. NO WAY,just use this...
    And IME the fuel maps are better...
  10. Shame there isnt a tuneecu map for my bike with staintunes and a k&n filter :( lol.
    Loaded up my fuel map from the ecu a few months back and damn its full on.
  11. If you have a Ducati or a MV Agusta what would it cost to be serviced at a proper dealer as opposed to say, a Kawasaki dealer which has mechanics capable of working on the bike?

    And how do you, under law, force a manufacturer to sell its diagnostic equipment to a non-manufacturer aligned workshop?

    As for this anti-competitive practice, what about insurers? How many of you have been strongly encouraged to take your vehicle to the insurer "approved" repairer?
  12. Chyeah, They really didn't think this through.

    It will upset many people. If this becomes reality (or already is, I don't know) I give it 1 month maximum till its been hacked into and therefore the "Dealers" (scumbags) wont be the only ones who know how whats the problem.

    This is nearly as stupid as Toyota having their electrics self destruct after a period of time.
  13. GM tried this many years ago with the Commodore... they had a sensor that detected when the sump was drained that wouldn't allow the car to operate. Well, fine you might say - this prevents people from running their motor without oil, right? Well, it also stopped the backyard mechanic from performing a basic oil change unless they had the Holden computer programy gizmo to reset the sensor. After much gnashing of teeth, GM relented and removed the sensor after the pressure was applied.

    You answered your own question, check the wording you just used... it's a "gentle" nudge not a forcible rule to use the "approved" repairer. Just as companies like HP, Brother and others printer OEMs do - if you read the wording of their warnings they make liberal use of the word "may" e.g. "Using non-genuine cartridges may cause your printer to malfunction or fail". In both cases (insurers and printer OEMs), they skirt around the law by using inferences that the average Joe Public take as gospel and follow without question. If they used words such as "must" or "will", the ACC would be down on them like a tonne of bricks... maybe ;)

    Again with printer companies... Fact: Printer OEM's make their money from selling consumables (cartridges), not the initial sale the printer which might actually be sold at a loss. Ergo, if the consumer uses compatible cartridges or refills their cartridges the OEM might make very little to squat from that consumer.

    Lexmark spearheaded a practice of frying cartridge electronics (burning out the nozzles to prevent refilling) after a particular number of print cycles. Epson on the other hand have an internal "countdown" that locked out the chip on the cartridge after X number of pages have been printed. An internet group pìssed off with this practice decided to test this out and ran a wide range of Epson cartridges until they locked out/refused to print. They then "reset" the cartridges and found that the cartridges could print on average 33% more pages before they were truly empty with a couple of models yielding an additional 59% of printing.
  14. Actully your both wrong. The head company (BMW,Trumpy etc) will allow anyone to to buy lease the software. you will find that due to the price and ROI that most choose not too. Even using the words authorised repairer means $$ to paid to say that. Just because only a few dealers do it does not make it anticompetative
  15. Doesnt coke do that with their fridges? You only see the little asian owned stores that seem to ignore it and stock pepsi in there as well :D
  16. correct, at my second job which is working close at a local servo, coke products go in coke fridge, or else the earth would start rotating in the opposite direction
  17. #17 aussieak, Feb 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    That's called a lease agreement. We will lease u a fridge with coke signature for free but u can only stock coke products.

  18. It's all good, as long as at any given moment in time, an even number of stores are committing this atrocity.
  19. Actually, no we are not.

    (i) On the facts the OP (and others) posted my advice was spot on;
    (ii) making something too expensive (forcing others out) can be anti competitive conduct under the ACL.
  20. aussieak, you're arguing with a lawyer... not good for your health mate. ;)