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Dangerous riding/driving

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by GoTeam, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. Something I saw along Ferntree Gully Rd (for those who are unfamiliar, a three lane road in each direction with a median separating opposing directions and generally has speed zones of 70 or 80) today was a little disturbing. A scoot took off at the lights and got up to what I presume is their terminal speed of 55-60 km/h. They were in the far left lane and almost in the gutter. What did the cager in front of me do? You guessed it. They overtook the scoot rider in their lane. There's three issues and one major question I have here:

    Issue 1: The scooter rider didn't claim their lane which ended up in them being in a dangerous situation.

    Issue 2: The car driver performed a dangerous overtaking procedure. They sort of 'split' because there was a car to their right in the middle lane. Even though there was room for their medium-sized car to fit, they shouldn't have done it. Where's the police to hand out a fine for that?

    Issue 3 and question: The scooter is too slow in my opinion and shouldn't be using a road where they could be at significant speed differentials to the majority of or all other traffic. Should scooters that are so slow be allowed to be sold or be allowed on the road? I think if they can't go at least 80 then they shouldn't be allowed on the road.
  2. what about pushbikes then??
    legally, if you are over the age of 12, you are NOT allowed to ride on the footpath, unless it is a bike track/combined footpath.

    i just think all road users need to be more assertive, like the pushbike riders you get stuck behind, because you actually have to change lanes to pass them, as they ride in the middle/side of their lane.

    sure its nice to be courteous on a pushy, and not sit right on the right hand side of the lane, but at the same time you have to consider your own safety.

    even on a motorbike, i will change lanes to pass a pushbike, i know what it's like having cars buzz you at 80km/h 3cm from your side, i used to ride...
  3. Idon't blame the driver. If a Scooter wants to ride along in the gutter, the message he is sending out to everyone, is "pass me"...As you would a bike or a slow moving car that was hugging the gutter.

    These pissant scooters with tiny little pissant motors that can't even keep pace with the traffic comfortably, while really handy, are also a bit of a hazard to the rider, and others, on more open main roads.

    Nevertheless...if it can 60-70kph the rider should ALWAYS claim his position correctly and assertively in the lane. THAT says, I'm here just like everyone else. Drivers will accept that.
  4. I ride my pushy along the service roads, bike paths or even footpaths (I know its technically illegal and I'll slow down along them and give way to everyone). I won't ride along roads like Springvale, FTG, Burwood Hwy or Blackburn Roads if I don't have to. Up until my teens I used to ride my pushy on the road. I won't do that anymore. I'll leave the road riders to answer your question Nibor.
  5. i am asking you though.
    if you dont believe scooters which cannot reach 80km/h should be on main roads, what is your opinion on cyclists then?

    unfortunately there is always a danger involved in most things. i always ride on the road on my pushy, including springvale, burwood hwy etc, unless there is a bikepath, and even then i often prefer the roads. as long as you are assertive, can keep a reasonable pace, and keep alert, i believe it is much safer on the road than the footpath, where you have to contend with many road crossings, driveways, walkers, dogs, prams, you name it.

    traffic is alot more predictable than all of that, thankfully.
    coffee time!! :grin:
  6. The scooter rider in the OP should've claimed their lane to let other traffic know. As pointed out by Raven, if they are riding in the gutter or so close to the curb, they leave themselves wide open to be overtaken. If said scooter can't reach the speeds posted on those particular roadways they are a danger to themselves and others.

    Nibor, I guess when cyclists are riding single file, near the curb, they are easily overtaken whereas a motorised scooter/bike that can't reach the posted speed takes up more room and peeves off traffic behind.
  7. I accept your scooter on FTG road, and raise you a scooter on the Western Ring Rd.

    Oh the mayhem!
  8. I used to ride a pushy on the roads but the sheer volume & general demeanour of "motor traffic" made me think twice. Its when you get "some" club riders up here on the north shore of Sydney, heading north up the old road in particular that really gets to me. These twats ride three abreast in groups of 20-30, hold up lines of traffic & with the uphill & downhill curves on this road & double yellows, its no wonder there are fatalities. Blind corners + inertia & these groups = disaster. I still think that if the pushys want equality on the roads, they bloody well pay a pro rata registration fee for the upkeep of roads. They are free loaders paying nothing, causing angst & demanding everything. Scooters I agree that can't exceed 70kph should stay in paddocks & driveways - NOT ROADS!!!!!

    Off my soapbox now & have a "cordial" :beer:
  9. 2M actually,.
  10. ummm and what was so dangerous??? From how i read it, someone passed someone else on the right without contact and the problem being??? :?Agree it happens all the time with pushies, and small scooters....and imo the scooter did the right thing.....he can't get up to speed so they got out the bloody way
  11. Sigh.
    So on top of the registration for two cars and a motorbike and the $50k + in income tax I pay, you'd like me to pay some more for the day or so a week I ride my pushbike to work?

    Not to mention that none of the registration fee goes to road upkeep, the biggest portion goes to the TAC...

    The driver was in the wrong if it was dangerous, otherwise it was a slow vehicle doing the right thing and letting a quicker one past. I'll own a lane on the pushbike where appropriate,but will always try and let quicker vehicles through when safe.

  12. Everybody has an equal right to the road but that doesn't mean you should abuse that right, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic be it from lack of power or skill then you should rethink your route ie: caravans large truck or scooters!
  13. I think its been said before on these forums, but pushbikes probably contribute 0.01% of the total wear 'n' tear of roads so how much do you want them to pay? 10 cents?

    Perhaps it is also safer for a Scooter rider to stay in the left wheel track of the left lane on a multi-lane road than to be anywhere else on the road?
  14. I guess the only problem is you know that the cars and so on will take advantage of that and not give them enough room for error.

  15. Nibor, we are talking two different methods of powering the two-wheeled transport. One is motorised and the other isn't. Despite that I'll answer. Sometimes I see cyclists as a nuisance. It depends on the road and time of day. During peak traffic time where the lanes are normal width then a cyclist in the lane is effectively a rolling lane closure. That wrecks flow along heavily trafficked routes. Outside of peak traffic times it normally isn't a problem.

    See you at coffee next Tuesday.

    Fekkinell, only if it is a 50 cc scoot. :p

    I don't think cyclists should have to pay registration. They cause zero damage/wear on the road.

    Stewy, what was wrong in my opinion was that the car was in the same lane and it wasn't an extra wide lane. The lane widths looks to be about 3.3 m (I could be wrong but it doesn't look like the ideal/preferred 3.5 m width in the spot/stretch where the scooter was overtaken). The car width to the mirrors is about 2.2 m for a medium-sized car. Sit on your bike and look 55 cm either side of the centreline. That's not a lot of room. Its the reverse scenario to a bike passing a car on the left by almost being in the gutter to do so. I think it was like how da_rooster wrote in that there wasn't enough room left. If the scooter rider had been further over to the right (or even in the left wheelpath) then the car driver wouldn't have been able to entertain the idea of passing them without changing lanes. For motorised transport I still think that scooters which only make about 60 km/h are too slow, shouldn't be on roads signposted at 80, and their riders are placing themselves at a higher risk of being rear-ended or sideswiped.

    Finally, it was a chick on the scooter and yes, she looked pretty good in her non-protective gear. :p
  16. Sorry but just because something could be dangerous if the whole world conspires against you, doesn't mean that one single action was and from what i can tell all the scooter riding might of just been being considerate to traffic behind.

    Imo it's no different to splitting through traffic, i think most of us have split and do split through traffic where you are closer then that to mirrors and cages :)
  17. The thread seems to have gone from scooters to cyclists now?

    The scooter rider probably went into the gutter to be polite and let cars pass. A car passed the scooter. What's wrong with that? Cars move over for me all the time on the motorway so i can get through. I don't see what the biggie is when both parties are aware of what each is doing.

    On a side note, i just ordered a bike to start cycling to/from work and on weekends (a new Colnago C50 - yeah baby!). Ride to work means leaving before 6:30am, it's an easy scoot along the M2 and no roads involved. Weekend riding i have always planned to finish my rides at 8:30am as that's when you see a dramatic increase in traffic.

    I still have a fear of riding on roads despite the kms i have done cycling. Doing 30km/h with cars doing 60-70km/h isn't good no matter how much you tell yourself it's safe.
  18. Bit of a givaway to your age that :p
  19. I can't see the problem here - the scooter had probably moved to the left to not hold up traffic. If a bicycle is OK there - then an LA class scooter should be as well.

    As for pushbike registration - it's not about the wear and tear on the roads - in the numerous jurisdictions where they have to be registered it's a cheap fee to enable identification information to be recorded - it's not about an actual road charge.
  20. you missed my point then, for all intensive perposes, the scooter is the same as a pushbike. it was incapable of travelling at/near the speed limit, and thus endangered itself by creating a large difference in speed. and also by travelling to the far left, enticing drivers to pass without changing lanes, often without even braking.

    how can you say the scooter should not be allowed on the road, if the cyclist is?

    as someone else mentioned, they both need to be asertive, yet also respect others and move over to allow a pass if safe to do so.

    regarding the last paragraph, yay :grin: