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Cyclists on St Andrews to Kinglake Road

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by [FLUX], May 26, 2008.

  1. I cover about 800kms/week on average, doing sport-touring duties. Overall I see an awful lot of the good and bad in the behavior of other road users, so much so that it takes something pretty momentous for me to even remark on what other people do.

    On Sunday, it wasn't the oncoming car cutting the corner almost the entire way into my line so much so that I was on the inside edge white line as the car's side-view mirror almost grazed my outside knee. That sort of stuff happens often enough that I ride accordingly and thus far, (touching wood as I say this) have managed to avoid contact with another vehicle.

    Still, I do feel that I need to comment on the behavior of bicycle riders coming down from Kinglake to St Andrews. These guys are constantly cutting right to the inside of the right-handers (left-handers in my direction), so much so that I had to take evasive action on six separate occasions to avoid having a $10,000 bit of titanium, carbon fibre, and aluminium try to graft itself onto my bike as a new form of sculpture.

    Such a contact isn't going to hurt me an awful lot, but if my rear wheel or outside footpeg catches onto one of these guys, it's going to send them flying or rip a 1-inch wide gash through their leg if they hit the footpeg.

    Don't know. What am I wanting here? I'm quite a liberal sort and believe that so long as you're in control, in your own lane, and driving/riding to the conditions, then you're not really being dangerous regardless of the actual speed you're doing. To me, danger on the road is not determined by a speed limit, but rather by your road-craft (or lack thereof). Danger to me is when you're starting to rely on others to compensate for your presence.

    If none of these cyclists have been seriously hurt or killed yet, I'd say that it's only a short matter of time if they keep cutting to the inside of the oncoming lane around low-vision corners.

    Meh. Nothing that can be done about it I guess. They probably weren't speeding, and law enforcement seems to take the attitude of it being better to shut some road down so bike riders can have their fun rather than expecting bike riders to remain safely in their own lane.
  2. Having spent a lot of peddle powered time, I understand often where cyclists are coming from, and all I can say is you would have to have a death wish to take a pushie out on that road even if you are behaving sensibly. As for getting on the wrong side of the road. It is a road where even if the person coming the other way wants to attempt to save you from your own insanity, it is not like there is any where for them to go.
  3. I think that's bang on.

    There's a good section in brisbane called coronation drive which is one of 2 main thoroughfares in to the city from the western suburbs, which runs alongside the brisbane river. Down by the river there is a really nice 2 lane bikeway that goes all the way in...yet still cyclists stuff around the pear hour traffic up on the main road and using pedestrian crossings on the bike when the main road gets a red light :jerk:
  4. Having ridden mountain bikes longer than motorcycles, I usually take the off road alternative. Riding on roads where a path is meters away is irritating.

    However, and I'm not too sure on how true this is, I have seen mentioned somewhere that the maximum speed for a foot path or multi-use path is 15-20km/h. Any faster and you have to use the road.

    Corner cutting on a pushy is like Russian roulette, you know that drivers don't keep to the proper side of the road, why risk your life.

    It's a pity that the bike safety courses I did during primary school have been axed. They had a good mix of intersections, roundabouts and lights. The instructors would ping you if you drifted over the lane lines.
  5. Have they? All three of my kids did this at Primary school - the youngest got her 'bike licence' two years ago.

    Definitely good stuff for them.
  6. Increased public liability insurance premiums shut a lot of them down.
    Most schools simply couldn't afford to pay what they were forced to charge.
  7. I cycle into work every day, from the Northern Suburbs of Brisbane. Yup, I take 'risks' - but these guys sound a bit foolish IMO.

    What to do? Well, if it is one corner in particular, just take a worse line for yourself rather than risk a collision. Not to save the suicyclists, but yourself from all the associated ball ache if you were to hit one.
  8. Well actually...

    Not long ago I had a conversation with a friend of mine (ex car racer, part-time motorcyclist and now an infatuated road race cyclist) who told me that the group he is a member of has actually been lobbying to have the upper part of that road closed to all motor traffic for a period on every weekend, and given over exclusively to bicycles.

    He didn't support this himself, but expressed amazement when I told him that there was a degree of disquiet about the behavior of some of his fellow cyclists on this kind of road. His argument was that it was impossible for a cyclist to be a threat to anyone, so they can safely do whatever they like (sound familiar?) I don't think the issues are fully understood in some quarters.
  9. Yeah, see this what really grates on my nerves. Cyclists don't pay for roads in any form. Even though Vicroads road expenditure, under which the Kinglake-St Andrews road would fall under, largely comes out of consolidated revenue, through the registration fees and taxes on petrol and stamp duty, it can be fairly easily argued that roads are a user-pays affair. Motorised road users are actually injecting funds into the state coffers for every kilometer that they use of some public road.

    Cyclists inject SFA. They get purpose road paths built for them, for which the funds came out of everyone's pockets, not specifically their pockets, unlike regular motorised road users, and now they're fighting to have what is a fairly major linking road between two points for which an alternative road trip would be an extra forty minutes and forty kilometers for those motorised vehicle users who were inconvenienced, all because they can't be bothered to safely stick within their own lane.

    Actually, to say that it grates is a pretty major understatement. Blood boiling would be more like it.

    It it gets through, then why shouldn't other groups then be allowed to lobby to have public roads closed to be used for their own personal racetrack?
  10. I should probably add that this was a fairly small (but organised) group who lobbied for road closure, and to date they've had zero success.

    I personally have no problem with cyclists using the road (even though I drive it on occasion, and they really do hold up cars badly). Like you, I am worried about how some of them use it, though.

    I'd also add that in the old days I competed in closed-road speed stages in classic car rallies, so it's not unknown for such things to happen. But usually not more than once a year, and the motorised versions are pretty much all banned now.
  11. The Tour of Italy is on, every roadie thinks they are a sprint king or a King of the Mountains at the moment! It's like how all the dickheads riding motorbikes around MotoGP or SBK time multiplies.
    Just wait, it's nearly finished, then they will all go back to normal until July when the Tour de france starts!
  12. I ride that road fairly regularly Stew, and I don't see that behaviour very often. Usually only when there is a group ride on, and they appear to be racing.

    Unfortunately there seems to be a massive increase in use of the road by cyclists. Early morning on weekends sees lots of them on that road.

    What I do see a lot is lots of small groups of riders, strung out from each other, who force me to cross the line to get around them, as they insist on riding three or four abreast. They rarely do anything to let any traffic through, and do not appreciate my efforts to avoid them, let them get around a corner before passing, or take evassive action on their behalf.

    I don't know if you have been on this road mate, but in most places there is no line you can take to avoid someone on your side of the road. All you can do is brake hard, and cut close to the edge of your side of the road, like Flux mentioned. That is not a line around the corner, it is avoiding a collision. It also leaves you in a very bad place to complete the corner.

    As for closing the road for their own use, they already get that for special events, when we never do. I would oppose that with a great deal of vigor, unless we (motorcyclists) got equal time.
  13. Have a look for yourself, though it doesn�t show it particularly well, there is no shoulder, the road is exactly two cars wide and to your left is a vertical drop
    http://snurl.com/2an9c [maps_google_com_au]
  14. I would be p1ssed about cyclists lane cutting on that road too - and I'm a regular road cyclist. They're really taking risks with their own safety and that of others cutting across lanes on that road. There are no excuses for doing it there (or anywhere, but especially there) - most corners are blind/obscured so it's just russian roulette really.

    I know the road reasonably well as I have friends with a property in Kinglake so I've been up and down the road many times in the past. I've consistently seen some seriously poor/lazy driving skills on display there and I try to avoid the road if possible (via both car and motorbike) because of the very high risk factor there.

    As for closing a section down on weekends for cyclists, I really can't see it happening as it would severely stuff Kinglake residents around (as already mentioned the alternate routes are signifigantly aout of the way) - common sense would have to prevail if anything that stupid was seriously proposed.
  15. Ah, now I see a bit better. I thought this was an urban road, not a twisty bit. I'm guessing they're descending at speed.

    Idiots tho, plain and simple. They exist in all walks of life, not much that can be done. As for having the road shut, that is utterly ridiculous, I don't see what could be gained. If they want to descend fast, it can be done on the correct side of the road, no need for closures.

    If only people would just learn to get on and share stuff, it would be much much better!
  16. Agree. I work in west end which is a 'trendy' area well equipped with dedicated bike lanes...I use them all the time. If one of them enquires, that is what I always planned on informing them about.
  17. Anyone stupid enough to ride a push bike on the wrong side of that road will not be missed by society Stew. Stop worrying about it and let natural selection do it's thing. :)
  18. Yes Roy Boy Corro drive :evil: Everyone who lives in brisbane loves their pedal pushing residents :twisted: its not so bad at 5.30am but later than 6am i could see a big problem.
    I too used to ride to work as a means to save money and keep fit, but lets face it its not very often that you see a cyclist getting penalised for bad behavior on the road.
    perhaps a curfew of sorts that you can only ride a pushie on the road between certain times?
    Or start issuing bicycle licenses after doing a safety course where if you share the road with motorists then you have to obey the rules otherwise you will suffer similar penalties (it's been done overseas).
    Anyway attitude has a lot to do with it and if they don't care about their personal safety then they should take ownership of the consequences.
  19. I break the rules on my pushie, all the time, mostly going through red lights.

    There are two reasons - I don't have a plate on the back, and I don't need a licence to ride my pushbike. There are no consequences to my actions, well the occasional bit of verbal abuse from other road users.

    If there was tighter legislation for cyclists then this would probably sort it all out, but I can just see the arguments against - when do you start licencing it? Costs, checking, admin etc, it would be a PITA to put in place, and since cycling is seen as a 'Green' solution to congestion/pollution it won't happen.

    Works for me. :p
  20. No consequences?

    So you have no problems then with getting run over, knocked off, causing someone else to have an accident?