After the most recent lot of discussions https://netrider.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53521&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=44 and https://netrider.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57902 I've done some more trawling through the VicRoads Crash Stats database for 2007 (latest complete year). They're not perfect but then again they're not that inaccurate either. I'm coming up with figures that seem to badly contradict a lot of the accepted wisdom from some riders... Please bear in mind that these are only where an injury was reported - no injury - no report... Like rear end crashes. Cars running into motorcycles:................10 Motorcycles running into cars:.................24 Motorcycles running into motorcycles:........8 Motorcycles running into bicycles................1 The last one was a motorscooter hitting a bicycle on the GOR in rain and high winds... :roll: Of the 2021 motorcycle crashes in the database - at least 1200 of them were single vehicle crashes. (I haven't counted any that might be ambiguous or that involved animals). Even though at a rough count about 60% of the multi-vehicle crashes were the fault of the other vehicle - that makes only about one third of injury crashes that are caused by other vehicles. There's some animals in there- 51 collisions with animals - 29 of these were kangaroos. That's higher than the number of crashes with guard rails, signs or any non-motor vehicle except for trees. I'm still working through this but it's getting more and more obvious that it's inexperience, carelessness or just doing something stupid that's causing the bulk of single vehicle motorcycle crashes. Some will be the result of road conditions - but it's just plainly untrue that cars cause the majority of deaths and injuries - we're doing it to ourselves!