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countersteering out of corners

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Androo, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. Poll: https://netrider.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=872

    I think the answer is related to rider habit/preference. I tend to countersteer
    out of residential corners when my cornering line is fairly round, but I dont
    if I take a more "racing" style line (late apex, hard on the throttle).

    just to clarify, the argument is about whether the rider pushes the right bar
    to straighten up the bike after completing a left turn
  2. I don't know if I do or not, I don't analyze what I do that much, I just do what feels right. I guess after riding this long. I will say that I generally tend to take the "racing line" pretty much all the time; old habits die hard, I suppose.

    Damn I hope this doesn't end up being like the "Do you put your right or your left foot down when you stop" topic. That one got me TOTALLY out of whack!!!
  3. if it makes you feel any better, I sometimes put down my left foot or right or both :p
  4. Left, or both if it's windy. Reason: keeping brake applied with right foot, for obvious reasons. It was also recommended as a good idea by HART, so that when you take off you have your rear brake already covered in case the nut in front of you doesn't do what you expect (front brake doesn't work so good when all your weight is on the back wheel :p).

    As for countersteering out of corners? NFI! I certainly don't do it consciously, although I do entering corners (do it consciously, that is). *shrugs*
  5. Depends on the bike.....my CBR1000RR tends to want to stay upright so you just have to unweight the counter steer into the corner (while accelerating out of it) and it comes up without a problem. When I swapped with a mate and his Ninja 600 I was surprised that the effort was the other way around, minimal effort to get down into the corner but a lot of counter steering to straighten up again. But in both instances to get the bike up faster requires a counter steer action.

    So depending on the bike you ride and its characteristics both Minna and her debater (are we at the stage we can class this as a mass debate?) you could both be right, but I'd say countersteering is the universal answer just in different amounts depending on the geometry of the bike.
  6. I would tend to suggest that acceleration/torque make a bike stand up, and countersteering/steering is used to control it. The balance of either steering depends on how much power, and how much gets to the surface.

    Cheers :wink:
  7. I recall one exercise at Aus Superbike School level 2 that involved this technique. Countersteering out of the corner can be used to straighten you up more rapidly. But whether you use it and the degree to which you do, depends on the circumstances; whether you're on the track, speed, degree you're hanging off and change of direction amongst others.

  8. Like Rc36 i really havn't taken much notice of counterstearing OUT of a corner, im usually too busy setting up for the next corner or looking for that cage thats about to cut me off.
    I know i do into and through some corners to kick the nice little beasty in harder! but i'll make an effort to check if i do or not, next ride i go on.

    Then get back too you all hehehehehe
  9. Article on the subject

    There's a good article on countersteering in Bob Thoeming's latest "Road Rider" magazine, although because it's all in words and has no diagrams it is a little difficult to get the old head around. I seem to recollect one of the Yank bike magazines did a similar article some years ago, but WITH diagrams, made it a lot more accessible. Personally I never was good at physics.......
  10. Re: Article on the subject

    Cool. I'll check that out. Physics was one of my favourites. Anything to do with accelerando.... :D
  11. To intiate the bike to lean in any manner, you need to employ countersteering. Most of the time it is so small that you don't notice it, and don't tend to associate it with countersteering, just leaning. But if you concentrate on it, you'll notice you are still putting slight downward or forward pressure on bars to countersteer even in slight turns.

    It is possible to lean the bike considerably without actually turning - again countersteering is required to acheive this. So again, if you're leaning the bike, you're countersteering. You may just not be exaggerating the movement enought to be noticeable.
  12. Like a few people here I'm not really conscience of countersteering on my current bike. I certainly don't notice doing, once I've reached the apex.

    My previous bike had a large rake, so you were a bit more consious of it up to the apex.

    My thought would be you would need a pretty powerful bike with a large rake, to be countersteering, once you had reached the apex.

    Maybe a hot Hardley?

    Interestingly, when I was setting up the suspension on my current bike, I set all the settings to the mid-point to start with. I had to consciously countersteer the bike in and then it wanted to tuck under once I was there. Once I got closer to the correct setting it became more natural.
  13. Countersteering applies not to just turning into a corner, but also standing the bike up from a lean(by applying pressure on the outer handlebar you stand the bike up and countersteer in the opposite direction).
    The answer is we all countersteer into and out of a corner. The amount of throttle determines how much we need, and in what direction - occasionally I suppose you might nail it perfectly and hold neutral steering?!. High throttle stands the bike up and if applied early means you need more inward pressure to maintain your line.

    ..and like most riders we are rarely aware of the whole process as it is a minute adjustment and second nature after a while. Its the first few months where you need to pay attention to it.
  14. OK, counter steering ALWAYS happens...... Except when you are performing a tippy-toe turn or a VERY VERY slow turn......

    The impact of counter steering is determined by:
    Body position - how much you lean for road bikes
    Bike position - applies to MX and Motard
    Peg Pressure - Weighting outside pegs
  15. That's what I thought too. I figured I must be doing it I just wasn't conscious of it. After all, being the superb rider that I am, it seems impossible to to think that there is a good riding technique that I DON'T use!!!
  16. Oh. Ok. I read the question as "do you continue to counter steer into the corner after you have reached the apex?"
  17. As I said above, swapping bikes with someone also makes it more apparent especially when they have different geometries.
  18. Is that a nice way of saying some of us are fat? :shock:
  19. Hmmm, Didn't think of it that way.
    Lots of different situations, so no golden rule, but in most cases you maintain pressure as required to line up for your exit line. The more power you add the wider that exit line is for a given pressure. Too sharp a turn in or too slow and you'll be grabbing opposite countersteer to keep it out of the inside corner gravel/gutter/whatever. Not surprisngly, more power also helps here :twisted: :D

    If your hanging off the bike, you're probably so way past this concept it doesn't matter what the weight transfer is doing to the whole equation.
  20. Decreasing radius corners can on occasions require a bit of countersteering past the apex to maintain a racing line I would have thought.