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Counter Steering

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by David92115, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. when you counter-steer is that only to get yourself into a lean? like say you wanna go around a left bend you turn the bars right which causes the bike to lean left then you turn the bars left again to adjust the balance around the bend?

    sorry if that sounded retarded im just trying to grasp the concept here

    p.s yes i have done it on my bicycle but im just asking anyway to be sure its same lol
  2. Left hand turn - push on the left handlebar.

    As you push, the bike will lean. If you keep pushing, the bike will continue to lean further.

    When you stop pushing, the bike will maintain the lean.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. ...what keeps the bike leaned on that path?

    - - -
    Tapatalking loud, saying somethin'
  4. then if you want to stop the lean and straighten up you turn the bars other way... right?
  5. Magic! ;)
  6. [​IMG]
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Otherwise known as the laws of physics.
  8. David, that's as good a working concept as most riders need. You dont manually turn the bar Into the turn though, gravity & bike design do it for you. ...It's the same for a bicycle too.

    Luke's right, the more you push the more the bike will lean. But whether that's the rider destabalising the bike to a lean angle that feels right, or the rider putting in a steering input that puts the bike on a path/radius which therefore requires the bike to lean a certain amount... is usually the point of contention - conceptually though, neither "school" produces erroneous riding inputs.

    It's still push left to go left etc.

    - - -
    Tapatalking loud, saying somethin'
    • Like Like x 1
  9. yeah ill just have to see when i do the learners course.
  10. Yup. But I wouldn't use the term "turn the bars". I think it's important to re-iterate the concept of "pushing". To straighten up the bike, push on the right handlebar.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. I had a lot of trouble with this concept when I did my Ls, I didn't have a single clue what he was talking about, so I just kept doing what felt natural. I was probably doing it subconsciously just from pushbike muscle memory, but when I deliberately tried to do it, it did nothing for me whatsoever. I've started doing it more though, but most of the time I still don't do it consciously, and still don't know how I'm doing it otherwise :p Mix of shifting body position and the force I guess
  12. if you make the bike change direction at anything faster than a trot you are actually counter steering it, everytime.
    don't dwell on it.
    gets morer technical later.
    (particularly if you are trying to change direction whilst in reverse rolling backwards down a hill fast, in which case pushing left makes you go right. like, right into a ****ing garden bed. i learnt this recently)
  13. I think the most important thing to take away from this is:

    It is a bar push, not a twist
    As you push left you "present" the left side-wall of the tire to the road surface - "friction" does the rest.
  14. Are you sure? What if you're fully cranked over in a right hander...
  15. Right, left - the principal is the same? Not too sure what you mean?
  16. If you're cranked over in a right hander, how does the left hand side-wall get any action when you push on the left bar to stand the bike back up? "As you push left you "present" the left side-wall of the tire to the road surface".

    It's not a smartarse question, it's a probing question to help me try to get on the same page as you.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Ahhhhh I understand you're mindset now (wasn't thinking you were having a go, probing question are the most useful kind (y))

    In the case you describe - cranked over right - in corner, tracking right into a complex with left approaching:

    - Pushing right, right side of tire pulling bike down and right


    - Push LEFT
    - Tire pushes to UPPER edge of tire to neutral (at this point leverage through the headset provides the torque to pull the bike up)
    - Continue to push LEFT
    - Present LEFT side-wall of tire to road
    - Coefficient of friction b/w tire and road pulls bike down and left and tracks

    So I concede - you are correct - in a hard right, the initial impulse to LEFT in not a friction maneuver but rather a leverage/impulse maneuver.
  18. "Friction maneuver"? Obviously there has to be friction - bikes rely on it to stay up, so friction is intimately involved in riding, but I'm not sure it is the central feature in the countersteering process. In your view when you push on the bar, how does the contact patch friction come into play?

    Just on an aside, some people think that countersteering is a strictly vertical upright feature of bikes. The truth is that countersteering works at all lean angles and that at all attitudes of the bike, a push on the bar will make the bike steer in that direction.

    I guess that's the key point, despite what people believe happens, push right to go right & push left to go left is really all that's needed.

    - - -
    Tapatalking loud, saying somethin'
  19. :popcorn:

    I've done my tour of duty on this one. Somebody else's turn. Those who want to know the history of the last war, use 'search.'
    • Funny Funny x 2
  20. lol everyone arguing, settle down people

    ill stick to "push left go left, push right go right"
    • Agree Agree x 1