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Counter Steer Challenge

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by goof, Jun 2, 2006.

  1. Okay folks, who can come up with a decent description of Counter Steer, one which is not more than a couple of paragraphs long, doesn't use formula and doesn't require a physics degree to understand? I want to pass it along to a friend of mine and while I think I have a fair appreciation of it in my own mind, when I try to talk about it, well, words fail me..........................

  2. Push left, go left.
    Push right, go right. :)
  3. Yes, thankyou for that, but please, feel free to actually USE the 2 paragraphs instead of stopping at two thirds of a hiku poem.

  4. even more technical

    push forwards with the left to go left
    push forwards with the right to go right :wink:
  5. Woo woo, slow down egghead. Forwards? :? What the fcuk are the wards and how many are there? :shock:

    :LOL: :LOL:
  6. I found this quote on Amazon yesterday. I think it applies here:

  7. Ahh I like it it Greenguzzi, but theres the point, we can do it, but can we explain it?
  8. +10
  9. Well I can. But it's easier to demonstrate it...:

    Take the front wheel off a pushbike and hold the axle between your hands. Then get soemone to spin the wheel "forwards".

    Then "steer" the axle. It'll take you about 2 seconds to work out what counter-steering is all about.
  10. Now now...

    We all know that to counter is to oppose. Therefore, to Counter-Steer we are opposing steering. That is, we are NOT steering. Geez, how simple is that?

    Or, more accurately, we are steering the opposite way to which we expect. To turn left, you push left on the left bar. Logic dictates that that would actually make you turn right, but through the effects of physics (some law which I can't remember), the effect is to turn the bike left whilst the wheel is slightly turning right. Try it on a gyroscope.

    That's your two para's if you don't count the intro and end..
  11. Try this:

    You're not really trying to "push" but keeping the steering straight, that's what "push left go left" means. Really you're just trying to keep the wheels straight, not turning into where it's going.

    I had (and I guess still am having) alot of troubles with the concept of counter steering (and unlike what's stated previously, so are many other people,) and no explaination in the world helped, it's just something you have to get a feel for.
  12. Look where you want to go, as you do your body puts weight in the direction you are looking at.

    just my 0.02c
  13. Very good. Or it would be if gyroscopic precession was what makes a bike go round corners.

    How come it still works with tiny, lightweight wheels on a razor scooter?
  14. Hi Grunge,

    If you're thinking about it, you're gonna have trouble. Fact is, if you've been riding a pushy or a bike for any length of time, you countersteer. The real effect comes into play when you learn the other parts of steering. If you look where you need to go, drop the shoulder and push, you will actually turn in the direction with little effort. It's all about posture, relaxing and applying some technique. And when you've got it mastered, you'll feel a whole lot better and safer.

    Try following someone who corners well and someone who doesn't. You'll see that the person having the problem will be (generally) quite rigid, will turn the bars and not drop the shoulder or only make a small head movement. The person who corners well you (should) notice that their head turns turns into the corner, their shoulder drops down and they push on the bar.
  15. Yep - gyroscopic precession is the effect that is demonstrated by the experiment I suggested. The movement is at right angles to the moment of force. So force is applied (forward) by the right hand (IE: anticlockwise) . But the movement is to lean the front wheel to the right - which steers the bike to the right due to the conical profile of the tyre when it's leaning. QED
  16. The gyroscopic efect causes the bike to lean, the lean makes it corner.

    Dont know about razor scooters, but perhaps their tiny lightweightednes means its your bodyweight controling the leaning not the wheels?
  17. I agree with the last statement because it's physics - you have no choice.

    But I don't agree with the first statement. I am always aware that I am countersteeing. Just ride a sidecar outfit and you will soon learn to think about countersteering. (Sidecar outfits don't countersteer - you can't switch between solo and sidecar without being very conscious of countersteering.)
  18. Maybe I used the incorrect words. What I mean, is that if you are steering a bike in any way effectively, you are countersteering. The real benefit comes from when you apply all the other parts that I mentioned.
  19. You can't go around a corner on a motorbike, at any speed above about 5-10kp/h WITHOUT counter-steering. We all do, we just don't consciously think about, it just happens.
  20. Physics is physics. Even small gyroscopes are still gyroscopes. (It's impressive how much force a gyro can translate. The gyro effect of the front wheel of my K100 can lift a 100kg sidecar with very little effort.)

    So unless the wheel gets small enough to be subject to quantum effects it will still work.