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Cornering procedure - am i doing it right

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by POPEYE, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. having been riding 2.5 years now one may no longer consider themselves a new rider but some times if you can keep an open mind or have other riders to compare yourself with than something just clicks in your mind now & then and you relize how much more there is to learn...

    i guess its been several months of riding with out much conscious improvement in my riding

    i have read twist of wrist 2 twice now, once a year ago, once 6x months ago & i never really felt I made massive progress until recently in terms of my cornering. Yes I know what SR's are & know how to avoid many of them but my technique never really came together until i read a comment on the superbike forum, it was something like "we all know the results of having too much gas & tipping the bike in too hard"

    than it dawned on me....i had misunderstood one of the TOTW 2 techniques. They say you must get on the gas asoon as possible which I have, you must make a turn with one steering input which I have yet I had been doing all this at the same time, so i decided to examine exactly what i was doing

    1. start wide
    2. set up my entry speed
    3. steer AND crack the throttle

    thats where i think i was going wrong, i would crack the throttle AND get on the gas without planning my apex & exit point, that is why i kept a. running wide b. correcting my line c. losing my confidence d. getting on & off the gas

    I spent a whole week commuting & thinking about breaking things up as follows:

    1. start wide
    2. set up entry speed
    3. quick flick steer towards my apex & towards the exit point,
    4. THEN crack the throttle & roll on smoothly & evenly through out the turn finishing tight


    what a difference, time to test it in the twisties

    went down to the locally twisties

    Firstly started slow, no hanging off, inline type riding & build up speed from there, i focused on getting the bike flicked over quickly & going throught the above steps...wow.

    My entry speed just kept getting higher & higher, could not believe the difference, where before i had to slow right down because i was tipping in too slow or had to get on the brakes or had to increase lean angle to make the turn...now the corners where flowing & i was carving them up quicker & often with less lean angle

    Incredibly everything felt safer, the bike cornered like it was on rails....

    later in the day i introduced hanging off & the turns became faster & faster

    I was in & out of each set of twisties so much faster than usual i had to do several laps because i was having so much fun...

    Furthermore, i feel understand my crash last track day at EC last year, i was coming up to turn 4 when i got on the gas too hard & flicked my bike in at the same time towards the apex losing the front end as the weight transfer from front to rear too quickly, hence i flicked the bike over AND got on the gas too hard at the same time. should have flicked the bike in first than got on the gas....

    anyway i just wanted to get some feed back from more experienced riders, does this sound right to you??? Or am i still missing the point.

    & yes i will be aiming to do a superbike school eventually.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Just regarding step 4, you really want to be finishing on the line that will best set you up for the next corner. T1 at EC I drive right out to the outside, T2 I try and finish tighter, then flick it over for T3. I think pushing harder is more important to trimming lap times than turn in points and braking markers. You can get every line perfect, and jam the brakes on hard, but you'll never get up to race pace without adjusting your attitude to grip. Not that I'm particularly great on track, just my 2 cents.

    TBH I did a course at HART recently, and those guys taught me more about riding than I ever got out of various race schools. I enjoy the odd track day, but I see myself as more of a road rider.
  3. This.

    PS. I'm far from expert, in fact I barely fit into 'intermediate', but I have just come back from doing CSS lvl 1 &2.
  4. impossible to say.
    if you feel it is better, it probably is.

    PRACTISE is what its all about

    A certain machine is to be ridden a certain way, you have to find out how with practise. Like learning guitar.

    A good way to know when you're getting better is the machine feels like a part of you, rather than a seperate thing.
    (after about 50,000+kms)

    I find the best way to learn is to try and do everything perfectly (or cliche 'smooth') rather than see how fast you can go until you crash.

    e.g. in your case rather than trying to think about 'starting wide' and 'apexes' just go out, chill out, and just try to be as smooth as you can and do everything perfect.
    -braking, cornering, spotting, gearchanges

    the times i do my best riding, is when i am not even trying to go fast at all

    corner set up should ideally be: (fast/race situation)
    -max speed
    -brake (or adjust to 'correct' speed/gear)
    -tip in (maximum effort) at the right moment, at the right angle
    -maintain max speed until able to accelerate
    (for noobs or anyone not at a track, don't try to go fast or hard, go smooth)

    you know when you are doing it right when you are scraping your pegs without trying to go fast
  5. I wouldn't say that. Scraping pegs is not really desirable, and on a sports bike it's a sign of poor posture.
  6. ^^^^
    Bad set up. Not sure of the exact lean angle figures. But most sporties, even close to sporties have good clearance.
    My gay Viffer will touch the fairing down before the peg...same with the ZX14.
    A very big fault with riders is they seem to think that if the throttle is on, it keeps rolling on.
    Learn to use an idle throttle, same as a trailing throttle....well almost.
    Get a feel how slowly winding on or reducing throttle changes your line. Or HOLDING the throttle to match the ground speed improves your cornering ability
  7. Thanks for the input guys...

    i am hoping to do the 'stay upright cornering & braking' course first as i have been told its more of a street relevant riding module, than i will look at more race oriented schools...

    that's exactly where i thought i was going wrong especially on blind left handers, my new technique is to so stay out wide on the lefties holding some positive throttle to keep weight transfer 50/50 (i.e. still being able to adjust my line, until the exit at the vanishing point becomes apparent) than roll it on once i see the exit or on a double apex right hander i will roll on the throttle to my desired line & position on road, slowly roll off once i get there than roll on again once i see my exit point. effectively creating two turn i.e. two steering inputs.

    the trickiest turns on the open roads seem to be the long double apex or decreasing radius right handers as not straying in the head position can be difficult, but i found if i use the above technique i can hold my line on the outside or at least center of my lane in these right handers much better than before.
  8. the pegs reference was for a supmoto as i have not yet had the balls, practise (or opportunity really) to do it on my R6. only done a few thousand k's

    so my bad. What are the feelers for then?????????????????????????????????
    are you saying my pegs won't ever touch down, or if the pegs touch you are doing something wrong?

    i suppose body position is also VERY important, and would stop the pegs scraping.

    Dirt riding will teach you cornering 101 very fast. It will teach you to move around on the bike also (actually more accurately= let the bike move under YOU)

    Which brings me to bretto's point of throttle control on a four stroke: because of engine braking you have a mid point between accelerating and engine braking, where the speed is maintained.

    getting a feel for this point is helpful in corners, to maintain speed without putting too much power down or spinning up the wheel. -dirt riding will teach you this aswell

    i almost never use rear brake in or just before corners like some people do, as a rule. (even though the LICENSE instructors advised it!!!????????)

    I will however trail brake using the front brake into corners (and sometimes turn in softly before the rear wheel touches down :s)

    for those who are squeamish = i feel FAR more comfortable trailing the front brake deep into corners, rather than even touching the rear brake at all

    THIS IS ADVANCED stuff, not for NOOBS, but is food for thought about braking. GET TO KNOW AND USE YOUR FRONT BRAKES!!!!!!!
    If you respect them, they won't bite you.
  9. Just want to clarify what may have been a misunderstand earlier on.

    'Cracking' the throttle does not mean adding power to accellerate.
    It refers to just opening the throttle enough to maintain pace through the corner. A little positive engagement to settle the bike and keep it blanced neutrally on the suspension.

    You don't actually start to add power and drive out of the corner until you have your exit in view.

    Not sure if you and I are just using different wording to describe the same thing, so just saying it to make sure.

    On the cornering side of things, it sounds like you are using the late turn method.
    That's fine, I use it to depending on the corner, but just wanted to caution you on the level of force used in the quick turn in. If you are too aggressive when initiating the quick-turn, you can overload the front tyre with the peak of force reached, just when the bike hits it's lean angle, and directional change. Usually is will mean understeered but there is a risk in the bike tripping over itself.

    Otherwise it seems like you've just moved up a level. So well done to you for that, in taking a good look at your technique, and working it out. :)

    Hope I've helped a bit.
  10. yes thank you for the clarification...thats exactly where i was going wrong before

    noted as well... i am picking when i use this method, mainly when i have warm tyres & excellent grip, now that i have learnt to use it I am also learning when not to use it....i am finding hanging off prior to the quick flick aids it without having to flick in aggressively, if i ride inline & justing hanging off with my upper body than yes i do have to flick it over quite aggressively

    next step is more track days!

  11. Kev Curtain and Mike Jones don't scrape the pegs on their R6s either.
  12. the road bike tyres are so wide!

    feels like the bat bike
  13. They do have rearsets and i would expect aggressive footpeg positions though?
    Not to undermine your point which is well made.
    With stock pegs on a sports bike, I would only drag at the very limits of lean angle while hanging off a long way, once in a while. Wearing good rubber but still technically road usable. So it's very extreme, and not expected. Any more than that, and I would be looking closely at my body position.
  14. What I do (which is all I can really account for) on approaching a corner, is to first get my arsk well off the seat, do my braking, downshifting etc, then I bring my upper body accross to match up with my lower body position as i drop into the turn, whichever type it is.
    I am very careful NOT to rotate around the tank and get crossed up. It's inefficient, and restrictive.
    As you move your upper body into position, I open up my inside shoulder to the corner. This feels good if you have positioned your boot to point your inside foot into the corner. (swivelled your heal in and toes out while up on the balls of you foot or toes).

    Not telling you how to ride or be preaching to the converted. You'll have you own style, I'm sure. Just saying that's what I do, which is reasonably close to the mark for pretty decent cornering. (as I understand it)

    Ps. Yes, for the track time, and dedicate most of the day working on your actual cornering technique. (not on how fast you can get around the track. And yes, I know that's a hard one) at some point you will notice that your stability and speed is improving, and that's because you are getting very smooth as well. Go too fast and your cornering technique will break down. Time to find the max speed you can run at smoothly. THAT'S, the pointy end of the stick, which is what you are ultimately trying move up, and collectively improve on. When it's feeling easy, it's fairly right, by my humble experience.

    For reference purposes, I'm about in the top quarter of the intermediate group on the track. With slicks I could probably hold my own in the lower quarter of the fastest group.
    So, I'm not waiting for an invite to join the ASBK anytime soon. lol
  15. Some good advice here.

    Popeye, now go back to TOTW2 and tell me what the throttle control rule/s are?
  16. #17 POPEYE, Aug 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    i think reading TOTW2 would eplain everything better than me as there is a fair bit involved & it only comes together once you start looking at all the aspects of your riding in the TOTW2 context or you could just watch it on youtube:

  17. Mate, forgot to say. Me and a few others are booked in to do the advanced 2 course on Fri 28 Sept. If you're interested get your booking in.

    Oh and big YES to cracking the throttle (as in Ravens description)!!
  18. Nah. FX600 have to use stock foot pegs.


  19. #20 robsalvv, Aug 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    Ok thats fine but try answering the question. There was a reason it was asked.