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Cornering fundimentals - who knows them?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by raven, Aug 26, 2008.

  1. Time to stimulate the minds of any fresh riders out there....

    So, c'mon Riders - get involved...talk about this stuff and learn...



    There are a number of fundimental techniques that are required for safe and purposeful riding....Many of us will be coming into the better weather for the first time and start riding regularly...many stayed out of the rain over winter, and could do with some reminding...

    So here's a list of a few things that you need to understand fully, if you are to be in good control of your bike while cornering. (assuming you already and correctly know how to actually operate the bike in the first place) :wink: :)

    1. Counter Steering.
    2. Head Position.
    3. Upper Body Position. (and where's your arsk go)
    4. Arms.
    5. Feet.
    5. Throttle/Power.
    7. Gearing
    8. Braking
    9. Lines
    10. Turn in points.
    11 Apexing.
    12 Exiting.

    Edit - Added some more to the list

    Who can ellaborate on the above catagories?...What am I talking about?...what's their importance?...Is there more?

    Don't be shy...or get your ego in a knott....Give it a shot and speak up...the whole point of the excercise is to exchange information...it's for the good of us all if we are to be better riders.
    If you don't know something or would like some clarification on some aspect of cornering/riding, then feel free to speak up and ask for help about it.

    I may have left out something that you think is important...ok...add it to the list :) ...I've just created a starting point to build on.

    What say you!... :grin:

    John.
     
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  2. Re: Cornering fundimetals - who knows them?

    Good idea - I'll play :) They're in the wrong order, and how to fix yourself to the bike is missing - though really it's one single positioning exercise, so, how do you hold on? Oh, and where's braking? Choice of entry/exit lines? Vision skills?
     
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  3. Raven, at what point do we get our knee on the ground :p

    Great post BTW, it's a timely reminder. Was out on Sunday and was the first 'proper' ride in quite a few weeks.
     
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  4. Re: Cornering fundimetals - who knows them?

    Mmm, cornering lines. :)
     
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  5. since i had my last prang , i havent reallly been very confident on my bigger bikes. so when i picked up my zx10 , here are a few things ive been trying to work on.

    riding around the city. , keep my upper body relaxed and arms relaxed.
    i find lowering your top half and trying to keep an angle at your elbows keeps them supple and you can register a lot more feel from the road.

    went to the spur on the weekend and tried to get back to the basics. butt about an inch inside the seat, slightly tucked in , get my head a bit to the inside mirror, loose elbows and counter steering hard with both hands.

    i figured out that my last off was due to me being a bit too greedy with the throttle. on the zx ive been running a high gear through the spur keeping the revs between 4-6 , still i would feel that a slight twitch of the hand would send me flying.

    600s are probably more fun through the spur...
     
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  6. I can see this is gonna be a very long but extremely informative thread.
    I have a fair to good idea of the fundamentals of cornering, just waiting for a free weekend & some decent weather to start putting them into practice.

    :popcorn:

    I'll have a shot at head position :oops:
    As close to, or past the inside mirror with head/chin pointed through the turn.
    ( ie looking at where you want to go )
    ?
     
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  7. That's about the same reve range I run on the Blade, bud....(Did'nt know you got a new bike btw) :grin:
    Depending on my entry speed (if I quicken the pace), this will suit me most of the time. If I'm going hard then I will run at 6-7 in a lower gear.

    The 10 will have alot of relative torque so keeping the revs low and not getting your throttle hand ahead of the bike, you will get some good stability and pull out of the corners, without the hair-raising moments.

    It's all in the throttle...try to ride alone...set yourself up very early, and be ready for the corner before you get to it...then just hit your turn in point and let the bike fall into into the turn. Apply enough throttle to maintain your speed and just hold it there - feed it in more once you see your exit...just don't snap it open. :shock: :LOL:

    SMOOOOTH is what you need Taj...then you'll be right, mate.

    If you drop THIS bike, I'm gonna kick your arsk!... :p :LOL:

    John.
     
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  8. good enough Vinnie... :grin:
    Just to clarify for noobs...Look where you want to go with your whole head...actually point your chin in that direction...Don't just look with your eyes.

    John.
     
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  9. Is #6 choosing the appropriate gear so you don't get tired / uncomfortable, or choosing the appropriate gear (with that lever thingy) for the corner?
     
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  10. :shock: :)

    zilly...selecting the correct gear is not about comfort...it's about having the engine revs in the range that you need them to be for a given corner by use of that "lever thingy" under your left foot. :)
    ie...A tight posted 35K corner you might need to be in 2nd or 3rd...an 80k corner you might need to be in 4th or 5th, depending on the bike.
    It's all about have the right amount of engine revs so that you are able to maintain proper control...ok? :)

    John.
     
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  11. I have been reviewing my cornering substantially since the last one of these threads that was posted (I think you were responsible that time too John)
    One of my key statements on cornering if you start to drift has always been about positioning your body further inside the line, and leaning away from the bike.
    Rob (Salvv) most subtly has challenged my view without slapping me down to hard, (basically he was saying counter-steering harder is the only thing that changes the line), and knowing that he knows smeg loads more about riding than I do, I am not going to argue the point, but my experience said that what I was doing worked.
    So how can both of us be simultaneously right?
    So… As I said I started reviewing every move I make going into and out of a corner trying to work out what is really happening… And it goes something like this.

    Start approach. Get on the breaks and gear down setting my speed.
    Settle the bike, position my inside knee out and sometimes angled down.
    Position my outside foot so that the heal is in tight to the bike (for me this is exceptionally important, details later).
    Move the body across to the inside of the line.
    All of this has happened before I have reached the tip in (So I am burning lots of time from a racing perspective)
    By this point I have picked my tip in point and have the bike lined up for it. I then look through the line of the corner identifying anything I’ll have to avoid on my way through and lift my eyes deep into the corner lowering my upper torso so that my head is down beside the fairing, as I counter-steer and tip the bike in.
    As the bike tips in my knee lifts to keep it clear of the deck , and I press my weight to the outside leg.
    So what have I achieved here?
    If the back wiggles, I can control it with my outside heel (That is why it is tucked so tightly into the side of the bike)
    If I need to pull deeper into the corner I lean away from the bike deeper into the corner. This pulls the outside bar around increasing the counter-steer (And this is how my truth and Robs come together).
    As I settle the bike onto the line, I wind on the throttle. This is causing the bike to bob a little because of the fact that I have dropped all breaking. (I have to work on this). The Inside leg is fairly relaxed, and I can use it to control how low I let myself move beside the bike. The handlebars are not holding any weight.
    When it comes to time to exit, I roll on a little harder, and use the outside thigh to bring me back into the saddle.

    The key thing I have learned is that the way I push my body away from the bike is not in and of its self improving my line, but it is causing me to push the inside bar away, and pull the outside bar around towards me, increasing the amount of counter-steer

    I can see reading back there is a degree of ineloquence in my post, but hopefully my meaning is not to obscured by that.
     
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  12. Where are the fun metals? :?

    Di wasnt a fun mental either.

    Fundamental really.
     
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  13. That's a very good fundimental preset and corner technique FL.

    Try not to get too much into the habit of thinking that you need to pull the outside bar toward you to countersteer, because while it get's the same end result it will take you away from the mental process of pushing the inside bar, and might mess with your head down the track...
    It's not a "bad" thing at all...I often have to help the Blade get over through quick S flip-flops by pushing and pulling at the same time. (Geometry limitation). As I'm sure many other riders do from time to time.

    I'd have to follow you to see if there could be any fine tuning you could try, but I'd say you are probably aware of anything anyways, mate. :)

    Weighting the bike will enduce a counter-steer, as you have found, but it is not a "proactive" method of control...ie...your action creates a reaction, as compared to a more direct input on the bars, which is far more effective.

    John.
     
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  15. A picture (or a video) is worth a thousand words eh? Found this on the web recently. The leading rider might be useful to use as a frame of reference around which to base discussions of positioning, lines and vision.

    Video Here - WMV format - 22MB
     
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  16. I can't believe that someone can ride through the Spur that fast and not instantly combust and die in a ball of flames.
     
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  17. now now cj...play nice.....wow, those are some great lines, i normally find r/h are the ones that trip me up the most but most has been caused by moving the body further across on the bike i know have to relearn where to position the bike to still keep myself further in my lane
     
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  18. Interesting thread - but i think you have more arguments that information :eek: :grin:

    Everyone has a slightly different riding style

    Everyone has a different suspension package

    Everyones bike is configured slightly differently

    so on and so forth.....

    I think the best way to ride "better" is to understand the set the bike up correctly. Afterall, an incorrectly set bike will teach you bad habbits in some cases. :)
     
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  19. I was playing nice. It's a pointed remark at those that maintain that anything in excess of 80kmh in the Spur leads to instant death. We ALL know that that is plainly ridiculous. From what I saw, I thought the lines were smooth and the body movement, whilst exaggerated seemed to work really well.
     
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  20. Good find, Stew.

    A good visual reference on line selection. (and notice no braking mid corner). Properly set up prior to tipping in. Niiiice and smoooooth...

    erm...Looked a little 'early' into crash corner?, or maybe the rider just let it run out a bit mid-corner to wash off a tidbit of speed, and allow the line to come back to him. Anyways...that's only a reaching nit-pic. :p
    Anyways...a good demonstration, I reckon.
    Shame the video-bike behind could'nt keep up! :wink:

    John.
     
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