Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Cornering? Apex? arg

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by DUK35, Jan 4, 2007.

  1. Hey there - I'm having troubles with me cornering..

    I can't remember my L's Course too well about the Apex and such..

    my problem is that I either take the corner too wide or take it too sharp... I try to plan my corners ahead while trying to keep on the safe side of the lane - weather be left or right depending on the traffic surrounding me..

    I look at the corners while I turn and I lean on some big corners - but the little corners always get me!!!

    is there something wrong with me? hahaha - any tips to guys have for a Newbie on a 250 Virago on how to take better corners before I really make that big mistake and end up sliding?
  2. This may be the start of your issue here.
    You should view the corner on the approach, then look through the corner as you enter it. At this point the word Apex really shouldn't be to big on your consciousness, you have to think about a smooth entry and exit on the corner, about looking where you want to go, not at the corner.

    So on the approach you check of issues (gravel oil and so on) then when you have picked your path you look through the corner and let your shoulders follow your head. how much of this is dependent on your confidence.

    Happy Riding
  3. No No No..... wrong... You dont look through the corner..... You actually look behind you :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

    Oh, hang on, wrong forum... Sorry, I thought this was the Loz Crash forum :LOL:
  4. hahahaha poor Loz - he just helped me answer a manitainance question the other day - best wishes to him!

    yea - I gotta go for a cruise and just do corners until I get a feel of my shoulders following my head - I think I'm missing that element
  5. (at the risk of being shot down by some track day expert)

    my advice, for what it is worth;

    please, please,
    practice this at very low speeds and gradually build up.
    only ever intend to ride on something you can see well in advance.

    as you approach the corner
    start in the Outer-Tyre-Track;

    |_|___ Left-Tyre-Track for a Right-hand Corner -->
    ___|_| Right-Tyre-Track for a Left-hand Corner <--

    stay in the Outer-Tyre-Track for as long as possible.
    key point is to resist the temptation to start too early.

    cross-over to the Inner-Tyre-Track
    when either of the following condition/triggers occur;
    1) you see a clear path to the exit of the corner, or
    2) you panic and think the corner is getting too tight

    which ever comes first!

    that is the simplest advice i can give.
    i have an advanced theory of converging and diverging lines
    that is so controversial that it would surely trigger a debate of epic proportions!
  6. Couple of things. Well before you get to the corner, scan the way it goes. Then turn your head about 45 degrees to the bike (chin pointing at the end of the handlebar is about right) and keep your eyes level. You will go where you look. So don't look at the edge of the road or centre line, You need to scan, and pick your line.

    The NSW RTA has a download on what lines to take.

    Oh Carver...track day experts and road riders are two different people, and different senarios. But IMHO your advise is good.

  7. maan- why don't they teach this stuff at the L's course?

    I reckon this subject is soo important for a Learner to know - other than the emergency stops.

    these are REALLY good advise guys - I'm learning so much, just gotta start practicing it now - don't finish work till 6:30 argggg.....

    So are you saying that I should stay in my line - weather it's the right or left type track through the corner and finally cross over to the inner track at the last minute of the decision to turn?

    hmm come to think of it - I do think I take my corners too early - and I never really thought about the tyre tracks b4. I can't wait to go practice now!!!

    ahem - mind if I hear some of these advanced techniques? I'm really curious, this cornering thing is technical and I love it !
  8. They taught it when I did my L's ^_^

    More advanced cornering technique is more about posture and the most efficient way to affect the physics of the bike and lean it over.
    Not AS important when you're on a cruiser :) but you can still use them!

    Things like turning the front wheel away from the corner to assist a lean, leaning your shoulder into the corner and down to lower the centre of gravity, etc.
  9. Why don't they teach this stuff...
    Because it takes a lot more attention to detail. the l plates courses are really about the broad concepts of keeping you upright.

    What carver is saying is stay wide to see through the corner then start crossing the lane so that you parse the Apex finishing wide again. this is the correct line, and he has described it very well, but as GG and I have said, it is about preparing first, then looking where you want to go as a smooth movement.
  10. Hey, I just came through kangaroo valley in my car and I found myself looking through the corner in my car. Which means I was looking out my side window on tight right handers! Not sure if this is so good in the car. :LOL: :LOL:

    When I did my L's, they spent some time on corners and the course was marked out pretty tight!

    This is all they concerntrated on.
    Set up braking and correct gear before the corner, start wide (outside tyre track), look through the corner (your speed is as fast as you can see three seconds in front of you) move to the centre to allow buffering, continue to look where you want to go and exit tight (in the opposite tyre track) with acceleration gently rolling on until straightening up, and go.

    There are lots more technical things to learn, but this is enough to get out there and safely go through the corners.

    BIG THING is your approach speed and correct gear no matter how slow or fast the corner, wide or tight the bend.

    Go get 'em
  11. thanks guys this is awsome stuff!

    in my course they just thought where to look and how to setup for a turn.. e.g. gear changing and slowing down done b4 the turn etc. but they didn't really say much about the lines and tracks - they just sed to try start wide and finish wide leaving a buffer - So I'm there trying to go wide and finish wide and I always end up going wide and finishing tight or try to compensate by starting tighter but they I end up too wide....

    These are awsome tips here - How important is it to lean on a cruiser? I'm too scared to lean too much in fear of scraping my pegs and sliding off -
  12. You are suppose to finish tight!! This can set you up for a bend going the opposite way (already set up wide!)

    I learnt on a virago and it was great.

    They have good ground clearance and can take a fair lean before you scrape and if you've just got your L's, this is riding outside your capabilities ( I know, you've been riding dirt bikes for years etc etc.)
    The road IS a different environment and the falls hurt.
    Ther is no rush to ride like doohan!!

    Patience grasshopper :LOL: :LOL:
  13. At any speed that isn't "low" you lean the bike to turn it.
    The FASTER you are going, the MORE you need to lean the complete the corner [that's why racebikers are getting their knee on the road on every corner].

    Simply put, a cruiser is wider and sits lower than a sports bike so it can not lean as far = can not go as quickly through a corner as a sports bike [potentially anyway].

    I doubt even another Virago owner is going to be able to tell you how many degrees they lean over - and it's even less likely you'll measure that and find a way to ride to that angle :p

    It's gonna be experience, mate... and a wakeup call the first time you scrape a shoe/boot/peg :) we've all done it.
  14. Just do a search for race cornering lines or buy some books on motorcycling. Even a car racing book like Going Faster - Mastering the Art of Race Driving (Skip Barber Racing School) will teach you about looking through the corner and the lines around the corner.

    Basically there are 3 ways to tackle a single apex constant radius corner.

    1. Apex right in the centre of the corner
    2. Early apex
    3. Late apex

    Most people generally tend to turn into corners too early and apex early, resulting in them having to make corrections after the apex by tightening the line to keep from running wide. Looking through the corner rather than at the apex helps to prevent this.
  15. hehehe yeah I'm waiting for the day I make them pegs spark hehe

    so to re-cap - we are starting wide on the outside typr track ----- we are then staying in that line until clear from the buffer zone ------ once past bufferzone we crossover to the innertrack to finish the turn as the very last step.

    Btw - jeff_kahler, did you do your P's with your Virago??? I'm having troubles getting the cone thread 100% .... I can prolly clear it 4 times out of 10???
  16. No, I borrowed a suzuki tu250x and it was no sweat!
    A really big guy also did his test on a virago and passed ok.

    Just practise!!
  18. That's what they taught us, too! This is a bit dorky, but because it's not second nature to me yet, I say to myself out loud when I am cornering. Or "push left, go left" or "push right, go right". (Helmets are great, no one can see me do any of this. :LOL: )

    When I did my L's they said what Carver said, but extremely simply. Plus they chalked it out on the ground in case we still didn't get it.
  19.  Top
  20. Almost crashed a few times yesterday.

    Every time it was a case of almost running wide and hitting the curb / median strip on exit of a corner.

    I'm not getting the bike leaned over enough and countersteering correctly in 40km/h + turns (e.g. turning into a sidestreet from a 60km/h main road). Mid corner I realise I'm running wide and freeze up a bit, which is not good, as you want to countersteer some more (I assume) to add more lean angle and tighten the turn. Instead I go into 'hold on for dear life' mode or even bugger the turn completely by trying to 'turn into' the corner like a pushbike, which makes the bike do the opposite!

    Anyway, I'm just glad I have the sense to take it slow enough during this learning phase so that while I may have these near misses, there is still a margin of safety to avoid an actual crash.

    Any tips on cornering? :p