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Confusius Says

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by LES2010, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. :( Just need a little clarification, 15 riders on a ride on Sunday (yesterday), we got pulled over by Mr. Plod and his mate, they did the usual RWC check, rego check and a licence check, one of the guys has just got his P plate, he was booked for not displaying the plate, here comes the confusion, 1 of us works for Vic Roads, 2 are motorcycle licence instructors, we informed Mr Plod nicely that the law as it stands in VIC. states that a holder of a full and unrestricted motor vehicle licence and who also holds a motorcycle probationary licence in VIC is not required by law to display a P plate on the motorcycle, a P plate is only required to be dislplayed if the rider holds a motor vehicle probationary licence or if he/she does not hold any other full licence only the said motorcycle Probationary licence. We were told in not so very polite terms,(SHUTUP SMART *RSE AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS) that it is the discretion of Mr. Plod in question whether it is an offence or not, said friend does hold a full car licence and even showing Mr. Plod the Vic Roads booklet with that particular passage in it made no difference, we have rung anonamously to the police and have been told we are right, ring another and we are wrong, Vic Roads tells us we are right, I know we have Vic officers on the forum, what do you say boys, is the the law an ass or is the ARM OF THE LAW an ass, don't know how it is in other states, is it worth fighting the ticket. :?: :?: :?:


     
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  2. I'm no officer, but fight it for sure.
     
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  3. send a cpoy of the fine and the passage in the current vic roads book to the police ombudsman ... see what happens then .... also folks at your local paper love beating up on idiot law inforcers too so send them a copy as well and if you realy wanna stir the pot .......... another copy to your local member
     
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  4. Fight it. Police never have that kind of discretion, they are paid solely to enforce the laws that are set in place and which clearly state that if you've got a full car licence you don't need to display P's (since you're not on a probationary licence, but a full licence with restrictions).
     
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  5. Fight it and if the officer in question was as rude and arrogant as your post suggests file a complaint with his boss. I can guarantee that if I spoke to someone at work like that I'd get an arse kicking, having a gun and some power doesn't mean that police can treat their CLIENTS like that.

    I've always been polite and courteous to police and have been treated in kind, but if I was ever treated like a prick after being polite I'd file a complaint.

    Justin.
     
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  6. I would be fighting it. The law is the law. Where in that law does it state the the Police may fine at their discression about that ruling.

    Definately worth a fight over.

    G
     
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  7. The police don't get to decide what the law is. They only enforce the law as it stands. The law says that the rider in question does not have to display a P plate and nothing can change that fact whether the officer agrees with it or not. Contest the fine in court. I seriously doubt the officer would actually be stupid enough to turn up for the hearing.

    I would also be writing a letter of complaint, however I would bypass his immediate senior and send it directly to the chief commisioner. Any police officer who doesn't know who should and who should not display a plate is clearly not competent to do the job. It's far more likely however, that the officer does know the law and this is just a clear cut case of Police harrassment. Take the matter straight to the top and it'll make the bastards life difficult for a while.
     
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  8. Im with the others , fight it. Not that this is very comforting but you have the law on your side.
     
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  9. You are 100 % in the right
    I'd pay a visit to plod's station and speak to his superior with handbook in tow or even better the actual statute stating that if they don't withdraw the charge you will take it to court and will win because the law is on your side, then will file a formal complaint against said officer about his "discretion"
     
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  10. Who wouldn't even give it a second look (can't blame her either, not her job to worry about trivial matters). She'd fling it back at the officers boss and then he'll sort it out, but he's going to be real shitty that you tried to bypass him, made him look silly in front of the cc and will make your life harder if he can.

    Chat directly with the officers boss, if no satisfaction, hi ho, hi ho, it's off to court you go. The boss won't want his officers wandering into court to prosecute fines that are wrong, it looks bad on everyones record and the copper is in court instead of booking people on the road.

    Good luck
     
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  12. I would have to agree that an approach to the ombudsman would be best. That way you can stay at 'arm's length' from the officers directly involved and avoid the scenario that scooter's warning you about...
     
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  13. And if that happens, then lodge a complaint with ESD, citing harrassment. Members don't like being hassled by ESD or the OPI. It goes on their record and makes life difficult for them with respect to career advancement.
     
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  14. A number of things.

    The police only administer the law. The courts decide whether they are right or not.

    Once the ticket is written, it's very hard to reverse. So going to his supervisor probably won't help.

    the easy way out it to write to the whoever you are supposed to send the payment to. Letter, eveidence and such.

    This way you will get off it, but tthe cop probably won't get his arse kicked.

    If you want to get the cop in trouble and make him feel like a dick, take hime to court. He has to show up. You can represent yourself. The magistrate will pressure you not to, but you are allowed to. He will be chatised by the magistrate and probably the prosecutor. Also if his senior officers find out he'll get in trouble from them too.
     
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  15. That sounds super dodgy.

    I wouldn't put too much effort into fighting it, as it shouldn't take much effort. They don't have a leg to stand on!

    What I would do is put some effort into having the cop taken down a peg or two.
    I like the idea of the ombudsman dealing with it.

    WOuld it be going too far to lay a complaint of vigilanteism (sp)?
     
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  16. You won't need to fight the ticket before a judge. Return the infringement notice with your intention to go to court, if necessary, and accompany it with a letter stating why the infringment is incorrect. Most likely you'll get a letter in response from the Justice department waiving the infringment. If not, on court appearance day, approach the clerk of courts to find which public prosecutor has been assigned your case and present the facts to them, they will cancel it immediately with the clerk of courts.
     
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  17. You have the potential to enjoy yourself here (if you have the time and the inclination :LOL: )If you want to make the cop suffer - see him in court - present your case (you probably won't need a lawyer - but if you have a mate who's a lawyer it's always better to have one).

    If you want to live dangerously (warning - this bits not guaranteed) get a high priced lawyer and then have the court award costs against the cops - the problem here is that the bastards take months to pay.

    Watch him get thoroughly reamed out by the magistrate over the case when it gets dismissed (and you've kept him off the roads for a day so he can't get someone else :LOL: ). He'll also never try to pull that one again as he'll also be in considerable trouble with his superiors over bringing the case in the first place. :LOL:

    I'm involved in a similar case. A colleague of mine is currently doing something similar over being booked for a supposedly non-compliant helmet (his lawyer - a QC mate from Uni) is so sure of the case and getting his costs back that he's taken it on a no win no fee basis... :LOL:

    If you don't want the hassles though, just follow up on some of the good advice already posted.


    TonyE
     
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  18. I'd be very cautious about using high price counsel in the hope of getting your full costs awarded against the cops...Costs are awarded according to a scale, not on the basis of what was actually spent. if you use a sledge hammer to crack a walnut, don't expect to get all your costs back. Rule of thumb is about two thirds and it happens less frequently against cops.
     
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  19. update on the situation is my mate made an official complaint to Plods Superior and has been advised that it can't be reversed ??, they will apply to the clerk of the court to have the offence reversed before my mate has to appear, it seems quite a bit of this is going on and it is those who cop it sweet, excuse the pun, pay up and those who know the rules don't get ticketed, this Plod is new to the district and thought we were backwards boys from the movie Deliverence, no names have been used for obvious reasons but an apology was given to my mate from the Plod (ars* kicked) in question and all is well again, hell we even offered to take him on a run with us, there was a hyubusa lurking near the station not many of those in town and we know them all, thats it, but thanks guys for all the advice, end of thread.
     
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  20. I don't believe it, you made friends.

    What is the world coming to?
     
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