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Confirming symptoms: Rec/Reg fukd?

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by brownyy, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. Confirming symptoms: Rec/Reg fukd? RESOVLED: Battery

    Ok, Saphy is a little sick.

    First instance; was left outside for a night at friends house (usually lives indoors), in the morning struggled to start; i.e; turn her on, she does her pre-start clicks/beeps/squeak's (fuel pump and ex-up valve), then I hit the start button and get a strong 'click' then she starts doing her pre-start checks again. After a few shots of this she cranked over and started - ok then :/

    Second instance; Towonga over-nighter just been, left in a cold shed, did the same thing in the morning - had to roll start her, 20km/h in 2nd (thankful for the pub been on a hill), and she started no probs and I let her idle warm then took off.

    In both cases, she starts no problems once she's warm. Just not cold first thing in the morning.

    At this point I put it down to cold morning and the battery is dying and won't push a cold motor over.


    Yesterday, full wash, warm-ish day, no starty. Again roll start all good, started fine after that once warm.

    This morning - same thing.

    Then I realised something I had been noticing - the instrument lights flutter in time with the idle. Same symptoms my ZZR-250 had when the battery terminal was loose - except Saphy's Terminals are tight and clean.

    The 675 forum speaks of the Daytona's having this issue as a known common fault - due to the shit placement of the rec/reg (behind the motor in front of the rear shock = hot). I'm just wanting to confirm symptoms and ask what I can do for checking.

    Reason been it's under warranty. With Peter Stevens melbourne. Those unknowing - they have the worst rep for fukn up bikes and returning them in a worse state. So I want to diagnose this before dropping her in.

    What other tests can I do? I read checking the charging voltage etc and resting voltage. Anything else??

    What's all this talk about stator's etc? Some other forum threads mention they can get shagged if the rec/reg dies...

    Thanks all

    ps: Saphy is an '08 Daytona 675
  2. Have you stuck a multimeter on it?

    Find out if it's charging at the right voltage.
  3. Doing that tonight
  4. 12V no motor running, 14V running

    Going to see if I can obtain the stator voltages - I've been told to expect 75-80V-AC phase-phase. Also to check for continuity with ground - if there is continuity, that means a winding has shit itself and yeah, bad.

    Back in an hour or so once I know what to poke and probe...
  5. by the clicking, sounds like a battery issue, buy your multimeter dosnt support that argument, time for a new bike
  6. I thought the warranty would allow you to get it seen by any authorised Triumph mechanic?
  7. Exactly the same thing happened to me same exact symptoms. Reg/Rec for sure. If it's under warranty then I'm pretty sure that you can get it fixed at any authorised dealer. Brisan's Newcastle did mine and it's been fine since.
  8. Well I'm back with a dinner break in the middle which was fail, not the meal itself - letting the bike cool down. :(

    Ripped the reg/rec out and did the diode tests between the pins - all ok.
    Checked the stator continuity - correct between the phases, none between the phase's and ground - all ok.

    Next test was to check the stator output voltages - this is where my plan became unstuck. Because I let the bike cool, I couldn't start it again. So no checky. What I'll do is when I arrive at work tomorrow I'll lift the tank and check the stator voltages then - pretty easy to do.

    It is under warranty, but like the OP, it's with Pretty Shit in the city, so I'm wanting to diagnose it before they get there hands on it - and I have to drop it in tomorrow at lunch time - hence I'll be checking it at work.

    Will update tomorrow - thanks all.
  9. MitchRoar did you get another OEM or replace with a MOSFET after market unit??

  10. Ok now im confused. Is brownyy a girl or a boy?
  11. I think he is one of those Ladyboys ;)

    Probably regulator Brownyy, the later Daytonas had a 3 phase shunt regulator I think ?? So the alternator is fairly simple, no brushes no wound rotor just a big magnet spinning around.

    Measure open circuit voltage on the alternator as you were going to next. Then ripple voltage may tell you something if you have one phase stuffed in the shunt regulator. Put your multimeter on AC voltage and see what AC voltage is being impressed on top of the DC battery, A high ripple voltage may indicate a stuffed phase.

  12. +10000
  13. Definitely a he-she... I know she's got girly tendencies.
  14. He looks a bit of alright in a pair of black patent leather heels
  15. Wow, my bike has issues and all sorts of skeletons come out... :LOL:

    Tested the open circuit voltage (unplugged from rec/reg) on the Stator this morning at work, and it was reading aronud 28VAC with the motor idling - measured across two phases. Revved the motor to around 5-6k rpm then it read a big fat ZERO. Booo. Tried a different combo of phases, nuttin. Odd. Bike is warm - started by itself.

    I thought maybe the multimeter connections were loose in the plug so I killed the motor and had a better look. Once they were in tight I went to restart and nothing - the standard dead "click" I get when its cold.

    Now I'm thinking the battery simply might be fukd or the stator is intermittently dead - it roll starts fine and generally runs / starts fine after its hot, providing you start it within a short period since turning it off.

    I have to drop it into Pretty Shit at lunch time, so before that I'll get Spazzy to give me a push start, then measure the stator output while it's still connected to the rec/reg, and hopefully measure the AC ripple you mention cjvfr. Will update then.

    Cheers all

  16. Damn modern bikes are getting as bad as cars these days with their total dependence upon expensive and sophisticated electronics...bring back Joseph Lucas, I say...sorry, I just had to do that.

    All the same, the days of being able to get a bike going again if it breaks down by the side of the road do seem to be long gone. I remember when TYS spat the reg/rec a couple of years ago, I couldn't even clutch start it.
  17. I can clutch start mine - has magnets. :D

    Edit: by clutch start you mean roll start / push start?
  18. Yes, I do. TYS was a 1998 VFR800 EFI model. Apparently, once the reg/reg goes and it drains the battery too much you can't clutch start them even if you're Superman (which I am plainly not)
  19. Hmmm, lunch time, went to start her, and she started first go...! Ok then, all good I guess... :/ Remembered I hadn't taken the seat off so I switched her off, removed key, opened seat, went to re-start, nuttin. Although, this time it *did* try to crank, it turned over a few times but then stopped short of firing.

    Spazzy came down and we push started her without the seat on (not so comfy :( ), lifted the tank back, measured the battery AC volts - 25VAC. Large fukn ripple!!! Unplugged the stator to rec/reg, motor kept running fine, measured stator output, nothing, across any phase, at any revs. Stator ka-put it would look like here... Plugged stator back in, motor still running.

    Measured the DC voltage of the battery, last night it was charging at 14.4VDC, today 12.x VDC. Revved it, voltage jumps to 14.xVDC, then slowly drops... thinking at this stage it's the stator been intermitant.

    But it doesn't explain why I can roll start it. Maybe the battery has enough to power the spark/lights/ECU just not enough to crank, and is occasionally getting a charge off the stator when it feels like running...

    Anyway - my baby is at Peter Stevens, I checked with parts department, rec/reg's are on back order due to the ice land volcano crap, and I think they said they have one stator in stock... let's see what happens... :(
  20. The fluctuating current could have taken a cell out in the battery. If the battery has dropped a cell that would explain why you get lights but no action.