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coming back on the bike from leaning

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by rider chris, Jul 27, 2008.

  1. ok i have two questions about the whole leaning concept going around the corner. i have looked at a few threads on this but couldnt really get a definate answer. anyway here they are:

    1. i have found that i have naturally adapted the whole shifting the weight technique. im pretty sure i am doing it correctly, i get my ass over so only one cheek is on the seat, and my head wants to stick out past the mirror, even though i am already looking from the side of the screen (if any of this is wrong im happy to take on board some advice). My question is, when should i get back on to the seat in the neutral position (ie fully on the seat upright), and how i do it? i have found that i wait until i am in a straight line, but i feel i should be doing it earlier, but im not sure, hence the question.

    2. the less important, and i am sure of the answer but thought i would ask. but towards the end of an old tyre, i started to shift my weight through corners, and when i changed tyres, i noticed the chicken strip was roughly 2mm. ever since then, i have noticed that the chicken strip is alot wider now, even though i am going around corners alot faster. i figured that even though the technique is meant to keep the bike more upright, i thought if i am going faster through corners, the bike should now lean the same amount as what it was going through a corner at a lower speed not shifting weight.

    hope you guys understand what im asking and im looking forward to your inputs :grin:
  2. Answer for number 2: One thing to remember, the more you shift your weight, the less actual lean on the bike required to do a certain speed around the corner, versus if you weren't hanging off the bike. One other thing, all tyres are different. Especially if you're comparing a "sports touring" sort of tyre with more of a "sports/track" type. Different profile(shape) on the different brand/type tyres can give some tyres tread a lot further around, thus allowing for more lean.
  3. i replaced it with the same brand, same model, same everything... but i do understand what you mean...
  4. I think you are doing it right in 1. you don't want to be shifting weight when the bike is unstable.
  5. Chris, what bike do you ride, how long have you been riding and what is your skill level?

    Hanging off, weight shifting and other cornering techniques are not required for basic cornering. They come into their own as your own skills, speeds and techniques evolve.
  6. .. and has Clif has oft remarked, the size of your chicken strips is no indication of how well you ride (not that I'm saying that you are saying that :))

    I know this because mine are almost non-existent, and I ride like a granny :rofl:.
  7. Grandpa!
  8. *I preface this comment by saying that i dont have my licence, and am only conveying my q ride teachings, which are sound, but wait for someone with experience to confirm them first*

    one thing that i was taught at q ride with relation to starting a lean is to counter steer. *For the rest of this, assume you are turning left* the instructor told us to think of the bike as having 2 parts, the front and the back. the separation point is the yoke. so the front half is the handlebars, front shocks, front wheel, etc, and the back half is everything else, behind the yoke.

    to counter steer, you turn the front half in the opposite direction to your intended turn direction for a split second prior to starting your lean. the way we were told this is to push the handlebar on the side that you want to turn TO. i.e. push left, turn left. so pushing the left handlebar turns your front wheel to the right, this causes the bike to lean LEFT becoz of forces, (dont know which forces, never did physics). then (as the instructor so aptly put it), as the rear half of your bike is heavier than the front half, and it is leaning left, and thus trying to go left, it makes the front half turn to the left, and HEY PRESTO!, you are leaning into your turn, without having to play with your ass. (yes, i know how that sounds).

    we were never told to move our ass, and were actually told to more use the weight of the bike to make the lean, and try to keep our body more upright (u see that happen in your motoGP when the riders are at full lean, but they are pivoting at the hips to keep their body as centred as possible, which makes it easier to straighten up again).

    as for straightening up, we were taught that as much as leaning helps straightening up, accelerating out of the corners helps too. something about forces again, i dont know which ones, in a pharmacist, not a physicist.

    this counter steering isnt supposed to be a big turn to the opposite, it shouldnt even be that noticeable. at q ride, i was thinking about the countersteering thing while trying to do it, and my instructor called me over and asked me why i was swerving like a knob... apparantly i was countersteering WAY too hard. so i went and did more circuits of the car park and tried to lessen my counter steer, but still looked like a knob with parkinsons, but was trying to fix it up. then i got distracted by the kid driving his RC car next to the car park, forgot about trying to counter steer, and got pulled over by the instructor again, expecting a reaming about forgetting to counter steer. but apparantly i did it perfectly! turns out that 5 years of delivering junk mail on my bicycle taught me to do this subconsciously! so get out there and start riding your pushie!!! haha.

    wow, super rant, hope it made sense and that it is correct, otherwise, i got a q ride school to go smack about.


    Lobby :p :p
  9. im riding a zzr250 at the moment, and im going to be getting a bigger bike too, i find its easy to control but my feelings and a few other people have told me that i have 'outgrown' my bike. i do realise that these are not required for basic cornering, but i do like to go around corners at a faster speed, allowing my suspension to work a little better (assuming everyone knows how ordinary they are on most 250s :p )

    from my experience (and most people i know), this is a big no no. reasons are you are now 'twisting' your body, and because you are not fully upright, your center of gravity is different (in the neutral position that is).

    anyway i dont want to change the purpose of this thread to all of the other ones on how to lean (i know i started going down that way myself :oops: :p ). The question i was asking is whether on or off a race track, when should i move back to the neutral position, and how should i do it 'correctly'. some days i feel myself push on the pegs, and some days i feel myself pull myself with the outside leg on the fuel tank (well close to it)...
  10. why don't you get some training? stay upright is out your way.
  11. yeah i was planning on doing that later on when the weather picks up a bit...
  12. Leaning off of the bike should hardly ever be necessary on the road, racetrack is a different story.
    Riding defensively is a much more important skill to be concentrating on, an old mate of mine was cleaned up by an oncoming vehicle while leaning off his bike on an unfamiliar road and too close to the center line.
    The problem with over committing yourself to that extent is that you often leave yourself nowhere to go. :cry:
  13. That all sounds pretty good, so far.

    That's more of a judgement thing. Generally, you would be back in the seat properly, as or shortly after you have straightened up. But that's not a set rule...more of a general rule...I often won't get centred until shortly after I am fully upright. It really depends on your state of balance.

    I see where you are going with this, and you seem to be getting the point of it all...but forget your chicken strips...if you are riding faster through a corner with less lean, it prabably means that your technique is good and that you can go even faster if you have the skill to manage it safely.......but don't get fooled into going faster than you can handle just because of the width of your chicken strips, shows that you have more lean angle avaialble.

  14. thanks raven... a good answer from a good rider :p

    from your reply, it seems that i may be doing things correctly. i think the next step for me is to go to a course to make sure that what i am doing is 'technically' correct, but i may wait until the spring/ summer months when i have plenty of time to practice :grin:
  15. I'll add a little bit more to Q1 (this is from a properly qualified instructor, not just me): at the exit of the corner, push the bike smoothly upright, and then your body follows it once you are out of the corner.
    I was told you don't need to get back into the seat until well after the corner. It seems to work OK.
  16. Feel free to give me a yell via PM if you want to head out for a buddy/mentoring style ride in the meantime. We can plan it around the weather, and It might help as a yard-stick to your progress. :)

  17. To answer #2, this is something that I have observed, and my take on it is this.

    When a tyre is brand new, it's fairly rounded (or more rounded than when it's towards the end of its life). When you corner at about the peak angle of your personaly "leanometer", you're wearing that section of the tyre flatter. The more that part of the tyre wears away, the more it wears down the surrounding areas of the tyre as well.

    A good visual example would be holding a ball/sphere of steel. If you started holding it at a fixed angle and rubbed it on sandpaper at just one point, then at the start the scuffed area on the ball is fairly small. Keep rubbing away at it for ages and make a flat point on the sphere, the flat area grows in size the more you rub, and so it takes in surrounding areas as well.

    i.e. you will find that as your tyres wear, your chicken strips will get smaller.
  18. * Unless you are Spots and have turned a perfectly-round Pilot Road rear tyre into a rectangular-profile car tyre.


    I need to do 100 laps of Macquarie Pass to offset all the long-haul touring I've been doing.