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Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by Tack, Feb 4, 2005.
I was wondering if many people here shift without using the clutch?
most of the time, but you look like a dick when it fcuks up
Read an article in AMCN, I think when Woose was riding Troy Bayliss' Desmosidici Ducati. Bayliss uses clutchless downshifting in a race pattern gearbox. Unfortunately, they don't go into the physics/mechanics of it, or how to pull it off effectively/effortlessly/with minimal damage to 'box, but I think the Ducati boss said that the 'box is rebuilt every 500-750Km anyway.
If I had the link I could direct you to a "discussion" (read - arguement) that went on about this @ Overclockers. To briefly summarise: some do, some dont, some think it's a good idea, some think it's stupid and bad for the bike.
I mostly don't unless I'm feeling too lazy to use my right hand.
I always do going up the box unless I'm in town and it saves me a couple of milliseconds per lap on the mountain hwy race circuit. The ZX doesn't mind at all as that's what it's built for
Some bikes don't like it (the ones with primitive gearboxes) so it depends on what you ride.
I wouldn't be nasty enough to try it back down again though!
Upshift - Always (except from 1st to second), there really is no other way, as it is quick, seamless and causes no damage.
Downshift - Never. It upsets the bike, can damage the engine/ gearbox and makes the transition from closed to open throttle ... interesting! (If Bayliss is doing clutchless downshifts it's probably his slipper clutch that's taking most of the strain.)
rarely used the clutch on the old dirt bikes I used to hack around on (up or down) but always do on road bikes.
dunno why, just do.
Martyh, I don't think using Bayliss is a bad example. I was merely stating that he does not downshift, I didn't state whether is was good or bad practice. I also said that his bike had its 'box replaced every 500-750km to cope with the rigors of racing.
Other than in traffic and 1st > 2nd or downshifting, i rarely use the clutch
But it a personal thing some people do some wont.
In all the 1000's of k's ive done on various bike makes and sizes, i've NEVER had any clutch or gearbox probs.
I recon this is one of those endless debates that will never get a clear outcome
When I'm gunning it and the bike's hitting the high revs; I don't use the clutch.
Taking off, 1st to 2nd gear, down gearing & easy paced riding; I use the clutch.
But I love the sound of my dry clutch tho. I always get funny looks from drivers while I'm stopped at the lights, "Mate, I think ya need ya engine checked out, doesn't sound healthy." bwahahaha
First post so be gentle with me... :wink:
As the owner of an "R" spec superbike,I feel perhaps qualified and experienced enough to clear this up a little....
Nearly empty wrote:
You are spot on with this coment, as a matter of fact the bikes fitted with the slipper clutch are so easy to downshift without the clutch that it would make you wonder why anyone would even bother using it!
The technique is very easy to learn and doesn't hurt anything in the gearbox.It is lighning fast and very controllable, BUT you can still lock the rear wheel if you get too keen and click down a bit too quickly. Not helped at all by the front brembo's, that usually lift the rear wheel off the ground under heavy braking anyway...
I wouldn't downshift without the clutch on any bike NOT fitted with a slipper clutch......
They don't like it , were not designed for it and it is just plain wrong!
i hardly ever cluch upshifting and often dont bother downshifting either. I've had the same bike and flogged it sensless for the last 5 years and replaced just about everything exept the cluch/ gearbox!
I only ever used teh clutch to take off. Are you supposed to use it for gear changes??
Clutchless changes on all 3 bikes, never a problem with the clutch/gearbox.
It depends on if I'm feeling laxy or not.. it's about 50/50 for me
Hey peoples, it’s a few years ago now but when I went for my learners I was originally told to use my clutch for take off and for gearing down, and that’s what I have been doing ever since, I know nothing about the mechanics of it, but I’ve been riding a few thousand klm and only gone through one clutch.
While learning I accidentally did the clutchless upshift a few times. Couldn't quite understand why I didn't get the god-awful grinding sound you get if you do same in a car. :?
Wasn't until later, and then this thread here, that it was actually common practice.
Anyhoo, can anyone provide some info on the mechanics of why it ain't so bad to clutchless upshift? Given that it ain't so good in a car why is it not so bad in a bike? :?